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Old 05-29-2009, 08:00 AM
 
Location: State of Being
35,879 posts, read 77,108,720 times
Reputation: 22750

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This is the South, okay? A history of segregation. Some of those roots are still here in the sense of black communities that have stayed basically black and white communities that have stayed basically white. However, black and white folks have been living here in about a 60/40 (white:black) mix for a very long time. There used to be laws here about whites and blacks marrying. It's been about 50 years of transition to integration, and in that period, I have seen kids grow up together, black and white, go to school together, form friendships, date and marry. I saw some really hateful stuff in the 60s, but I don't see that today. Today, I see something different. There seems to be a move to separation - race identification. A couple who are friends of mine - she is white, he is black - say they have more stares and shunning in other areas of the country than here is the South. Their main problem is their families, who seem to have a difference of opinion about their children - are they being raised too white? Are they losing their black cultural roots? Why should we insist they identify w/ being either white or black . . . etc. These are the things their family members say to them. As far as school and getting along with other kids, the parents tell me this is not a problem in itself, but that indeed, their are black groups of kids who exclude whites and white kids who exclude black kids. They say this is not the norm but it still can be hurtful. They don't want to force their children to feel they must identify themselves as being either white or black. However, it appears the outside world DOES want the kids to be considered "one race or the other." It is hard for me to understand, b/c I am not in that situation. I can only listen and learn.

So I don't know how to be honest with you (as a human being who happens to be white). All I know is what my friends (black, asian, hispanic) tell me. It is hard to have an honest discussion about race in this country. Here is my thought . . . if the civility I see is fake . . . then at least it is civility. What I hear from white friends on the subject is - why do people still bring this up - no one cares. Of course, that is the white perspective b/c they truly WANT to be color-blind. They don't want race to be an issue. Is it honest? Seems honest to me. It's not like I hear white people sitting around telling jokes about black folks or making disparaging remarks about them - WHICH I DID HEAR IN THE 60s. So it seems to have changed "through my lens" as Baybook put it. My black friends say - yes, it has changed, of course . . . but that you have to meet people individually - one on one. There will always be bigots and racists (and people who are simply uncomfortable around anyone who doesn't look like they do - shallow, yes, but still - true). The majority of folks I have met since moving back here to Charlotte just want to get along w/ their neighbors and coworkers. They are not looking to create discord.

Some neighborhoods are more diverse than others. In this city, your price range is gonna determine a lot about your choices of where you can afford to live. If you live in a high crime area . . . it really isn't gonna matter what race you are . . . you are probably not gonna be happy there.
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Old 05-29-2009, 08:13 AM
 
2,340 posts, read 4,608,338 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
It is hard to have an honest discussion about race in this country.

Here is my thought . . . if the civility I see is fake . . . then at least it is civility.
This.

I think on this issue, everyone wants to be heard/validated. People want someone to say your experiences and feelings count. We don't always have to agree, it but goes a long way when you try to understand.
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Old 05-29-2009, 08:46 AM
 
2,603 posts, read 4,990,841 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliBoy View Post
I would recommend that you please speak for yourself and not for other gracious posters here when it comes to your unsupported gatherings.
I spoke for myself and I really don't think my assumption is all that unsupported.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliBoy View Post
Do you honestly feel that only a person of a particular group has proper knowledge and authority of subject matters directly related to their own race?
I didn't say anyone was being dishonest. I just think a lot of white people are very quick to say that no racial problems exist. It absolves them, makes them feel better about the really nasty history of race relations the legacy of which we're still living today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliBoy View Post
But such blanket 'grain of salt' gatherings about 'whites' only debilitates (rather than promotes) the progress of racial interaction and insults those who's experience, regardless of race, are on the positive end of a belief system.
Are you saying because I pointed out that there are realistically still a lot of racists out there, I insulted someone? What if you told me it wasn't going to rain and I said it might? Does that mean I'm insulting your outlook or trying to help you out by telling you maybe you should bring an umbrella? I think we need to be honest rather than pretend there are no racial problems. Racism exists. It is real.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliBoy View Post
However, I actually find it refreshing that more individuals here are providing positive commentary and outlook on racial coupling here in North Carolina. It may mean that a majority of our population is, indeed, progressing closer to a color blind society. A society where such a concern presented by the OP will be one never considered. As constructively subjective and individually honest your commentary may have been, Coped, your assumptions, or gatherings, quoted above are certainly not adding to such color blind aspirations.
"Color-blind"??? I think by making this post the op recognized that the world wasn't that way. I'm sorry but I don't really believe a "color-blind" society can happen in any of our lifetimes. We're too close to real racial apartheid. The balance of economic power is still skewed white, and structural and personal housing segregation leads to disinvestment and still keeps many black neighborhoods poor and majority-black schools underperforming.

But let's not get into a debate about that. I think a majority of people here are civil on the surface when it comes to race relations. There are certain subsets are not. I can't really say who because I've known white people from all economic and educational backgrounds say some really hurtful, racist things. For the most part, I do not think the OP will have too many problems in the city. And probably not many in the burbs either. But let's be realistic.
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Old 05-29-2009, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Durham, NC
1,232 posts, read 3,770,141 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baybook View Post
Of course it doesn't but I really don't understand your problem with this poster's statement.
Baybook, read the following "quote" to what prompted my reply:

Quote:
Originally Posted by coped View Post
I would keep in mind that (at least from what I gather), most people posting on here are white. I may be wrong, but take their "no racial problems here" with a grain of salt. Not saying anyone is racist, just saying they might not have the background to comment on it honestly.
Often times, trying to clarify a point comprehensively and constructively gives opportunity to go off tangent from the original point that prompted the initial reply. So, here's the deal, Coped, you clearly made a racially biased remark as "quoted" above indicating, however conceding that you 'may' be wrong, that most people responding are potentially white with commentary only to be taken with a grain of salt and that, assumedly, they are unqualified to comment on it honestly based on the color of their skin. Replace the word white with any other color, and you would receive a landslide of backlash, otherwise. If it is wrong for one, it is wrong for all. And I say that such statements are racially biased, unfair and unwarranted (especially to those who took the time to graciously respond to the OP's inquiry).

Any one person with experience can comment on the Original Poster's (OP) valid inquiry. Let the OP decide to make their own assumption and take the 'white' person's commentary with a 'grain of salt.' If I speak only for myself, I found it insulting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by baybook View Post
Perfect example. I have yet to see an Anglo come to this board and ask if Area XXX is welcoming to White people. Or a straight person ask is Area XXX a good place for heterosexual families. I would assume that the question doesn't occur to them. So their answer may be colored by that experience or lack of. Different lens.
The assumption clearly indicates a valid uncertainty... that such things do exist along the entire color spectrum depending on the makeup of the destination versus the makeup of the individual concerned. Just because it is not verbalized or witness by any one individual, does not mean that it doesn't exist or is not prevalent. If an individual deems themself different from a group or region they are about to associate, they may indeed be concerned about assimilation depending on their degree of confidence in their unique differences or lack of confidence (or education) in the group or region they are about to associate.

The OP posed a valid question and I never question such validity. The only expression I made regarding such was my hope, however naive or unwarranted by some, that this nation does, indeed, become a color-blind one. And I think we are more so than we are not.

But it is also my assertion that the more one knocks what they perceive is the majority if they, in fact, believe they are of a minority, the more that perceived majority will develop resentment toward the individual who thinks their own differences will create a problem for that perceived majority. The perception, of course, varies among each individual, as indicated above for the reasons indicated above. Certainly, such minority does not give them right to bear negativity toward their perceived majority inasmuch as it is allowable for individuals in a perceived majority to impose negativity against an individual or group they perceive as a minority. Negativity only breeds more negativity.

What my response all comes down to is my belief that Coped mis-stepped in assuming and asserting that those he perceived as white were not providing honest answers to issues they perceive from their own standpoint. Regardless of their skin color, I think the people he/she was referring have a valid voice. I am all for being 'realistic' about situations, but there are some who view life through their rose tinted lens and some thru much darker ones. All must be considered with a grain of salt, but the valid whole will help the OP determine what view they will take through their own.
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Old 05-29-2009, 12:09 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,879 posts, read 77,108,720 times
Reputation: 22750
CaliBoy - what is the point? Trying to hone up your skills for debate class?

The OP asked a question and now you are off on a tangent. We are all just trying to answer a question here, not debate the psycho-social implications of what people are sharing.
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Old 05-29-2009, 03:02 PM
 
2,603 posts, read 4,990,841 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliBoy View Post
Certainly, such minority does not give them right to bear negativity toward their perceived majority inasmuch as it is allowable for individuals in a perceived majority to impose negativity against an individual or group they perceive as a minority. Negativity only breeds more negativity.

What my response all comes down to is my belief that Coped mis-stepped in assuming and asserting that those he perceived as white were not providing honest answers to issues they perceive from their own standpoint. Regardless of their skin color, I think the people he/she was referring have a valid voice. I am all for being 'realistic' about situations, but there are some who view life through their rose tinted lens and some thru much darker ones.
There was no negativity toward whites in my statement. Black people and people who have been in interracial relationships can speak with more validity on the experiences of interracial couples. That's not to say white people's observations are not valid, I would just trust someone with the experience over someone without said experience. Not too much of a leap from what you're saying -- maybe I should ask my mechanic about my cholesterol or my doctor about my doctor about my timing belt??? I mean, everyone's opinion is equally valid.

I hope we have not scared the OP away. I would suggest searching for a message board that deals with the topic specifically.
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Old 05-29-2009, 03:39 PM
 
3,115 posts, read 7,100,295 times
Reputation: 1807
the house next door is for sale. you can come and live by me, I don't care what color you are.
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Old 05-29-2009, 08:37 PM
 
Location: Five Points
1,190 posts, read 4,036,932 times
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There are many places in the Old North State where mixed race couples will feel comfortable, and there are many small town in the east, west, piedmont, sandhills where they will not. Such is life. Thinking that mixed race couples are fine is no more correct than someone thinking they are not. And white folks don't have a market on the latter. Plenty of black women that I have worked with or know HATE the idea of a black man and a white woman. I would die a real fast death if one of my children ever dated outside of the white race. And they would be out of an inheritance. That is just how I feel. Bluebirds should be with Bluebirds. My opinion has ZERO to do with race. There are many sorry whites, asians, blacks etc. People are people. I just think mixed race kids get the short end of the stick. Nothing anyone can say will ever change my mind. And plenty of non-whites feel the exact same way.
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Old 05-29-2009, 08:48 PM
 
2,340 posts, read 4,608,338 times
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... and there you have it.

:-(
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Old 05-29-2009, 08:58 PM
 
Location: Some got six month some got one solid. But me and my buddies all got lifetime here
4,555 posts, read 10,351,328 times
Reputation: 2162
Quote:
Originally Posted by uncletupelo View Post
There are many places in the Old North State where mixed race couples will feel comfortable, and there are many small town in the east, west, piedmont, sandhills where they will not. Such is life. Thinking that mixed race couples are fine is no more correct than someone thinking they are not. And white folks don't have a market on the latter. Plenty of black women that I have worked with or know HATE the idea of a black man and a white woman. I would die a real fast death if one of my children ever dated outside of the white race. And they would be out of an inheritance. That is just how I feel. Bluebirds should be with Bluebirds. My opinion has ZERO to do with race. There are many sorry whites, asians, blacks etc. People are people. I just think mixed race kids get the short end of the stick. Nothing anyone can say will ever change my mind. And plenty of non-whites feel the exact same way.

Okay, I respect your opinion, moreso your honesty. I really and truly do. However your logic is way chopped. First you say that you would die a fast death and cut your kids out of an inheritance if they dated outside their race. Then you say that your opinion has zero to do with race.

So if it doesn't have anything to do with race, how did you come to your conclusion? Is it really about the treatment mixed race kids may or may not receive, is it the treatment that you yourself would be fearing, or is it really race? Because that's a really hard line stance to commit against your kids.
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