Pay cut for teachers v. quality of education (to live in, deposits)

[getatag]

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[r-rated]

and do you think that it is possible for somone to be wrongly accused, thats why the union is there to make sure they get a fair hearing. Duh!

[lowercountry]

Originally Posted by r-rated

why do the cuts have to be in services for children. if u care so much about children why do you agree with teacher layoffs, yr contradicting yourself. go back and read yr own own post and see the contradictions

I never said I was in favor of layoffs and I have never contradicted myself. I don't even know why I am bothering with you but here it goes again:

I said, to summarize, that hard decisions have to be made in these times and that perhaps things like furloughs and/or temporary cut backs in benefits may be necessary to save more teachers in the long run and to save programs for the children. In California, for example, the teachers' unions have fought so hard to prevent cutbacks that it ended up costing more teachers their jobs in the long run. I think the same argument can be made for the UAW. The UAW practically killed Detroit.

You instead seem to imply, "the heck with the kids... I want mine!" Several pages of this debate and NOT ONCE had you said anything about the students and their education - just about you getting your and keeping it, with the help of a union that does nothing for the students.

You have been fighting a losing battle all day and can't see it for some reason.

[lovesMountains]

Originally Posted by getatag

Hey, I found a new toy.

My Settings:

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Settings and Options...........

Edit Ignore List...............


enter name and click Okay!

What's that getatag???? It's so noisy in here I'm having a hard time hearing you! What with all this hot air and escaping goats to round up, I need a nap

[lowercountry]

Originally Posted by r-rated

and do you think that it is possible for somone to be wrongly accused, thats why the union is there to make sure they get a fair hearing. Duh!

"Duh!" ? Again, are you 12?

Face it. That story is damning - and telling - about your precious UFT. The national and international attention that this story has brought on the union now has them claiming that they need to relook at their stance.

[vindaloo]

Originally Posted by r-rated

where I come from the loudest in the room gets to form a union that defend and protect them from being used as escape goats...

Being a loudmouth enables you to form a union? No wonder unions suck and are the founding base for laziness and inflexibility in many cases. Too bad they don't elect production oriented, intelligent individuals as union heads. Noticed that unions aren't having their "finest hour" lately

Additionally, I don't think that you are comprehending some of the messages that are aimed at you. Your answers aren't helping you, ie. "New Yorkers don't read". Sorry but I have actually seen New Yorkers reading newspapers. Are you going to tell me that they are looking at the pictures?

And, it is perfectly true that unions make it difficult to get rid of "bad" teachers and replace them with good ones. Between unions and EEO (still being used and still descriminatory), a high quality teaching force is very difficult to install.

[lowercountry]

Originally Posted by r-rated

... and the money comes from taxes paid by our citizens, do I have to state the obvious

Apparently, since you don't understand basic economics. So here it goes: people lose jobs, they spend less. They spend less, less revenue in the form of taxes comes to the government coffers. Less revenue means less monies to be used for services provided in the public sector, such as schools. When there is less money the public agencies have to cut back to balance their budgets. Employment compensation is by far the largest block of budgets and it is next to impossible to cut back budgets significantly (as we see as a necessity in the U.S. these days) without affecting compensation somewhat. The best you can do is to hope that cutback is as minimal as possible. No where in the economic equation is there a union providing for the shortfall in revenue. Again, a union simply prolongs the inevitable, and actually can lead to more people being adversely affected (i.e., California).

[r-rated]

Originally Posted by getatag

Hey, I found a new toy.

My Settings:

Your Control Panel........

Settings and Options...........

Edit Ignore List...............


enter name and click Okay!

great, thanks for the info. I'll include your name to my ignore list

[r-rated]

Originally Posted by lowercountry

I never said I was in favor of layoffs and I have never contradicted myself. I don't even know why I am bothering with you but here it goes again:

I said, to summarize, that hard decisions have to be made in these times and that perhaps things like furloughs and/or temporary cut backs in benefits may be necessary to save more teachers in the long run and to save programs for the children. In California, for example, the teachers' unions have fought so hard to prevent cutbacks that it ended up costing more teachers their jobs in the long run. I think the same argument can be made for the UAW. The UAW practically killed Detroit.

You instead seem to imply, "the heck with the kids... I want mine!" Several pages of this debate and NOT ONCE had you said anything about the students and their education - just about you getting your and keeping it, with the help of a union that does nothing for the students.

You have been fighting a losing battle all day and can't see it for some reason.

no, yr losing this battle. thats this thread is about teacher layoffs and salary cuts and I got on saying if teachers in NC had a union there wouldnt get laid off and have their salary cut. where have u been and what did u think we were discussing

[lowercountry]

Do a quick look at other posts by R-Rated.