Pay cut for teachers v. quality of education (Charlotte, Wilmington: insurance, employment)

[MysteryMT]

I thought recent and older studies showed that if anything kids should stay in school longer. Cutting them out 3 weeks earlier is just more burden for parents to arrange daytime care if there are two working parents plus it is allowing a greater amount of time for students to forget what they've been taught but not necessarily internalized.

Arne Duncan, the Cabinet secretary charged with overhauling America's educational system, is studying programs that keep kids in school longer to boost their academic achievements...But Duncan said American students are "at a competitive disadvantage" because the United States has shorter school years than other countries such as India and China.

Education chief favors longer school year - CNN.com

"Research reveals a complicated relationship between time and learning and suggests that improving the quality of instructional time is at least as important as increasing the quantity of time in school. It also suggests that the addition of high-quality teaching time is of particular benefit to certain groups of students, such as low-income students and others who have little opportunity for learning outside of school.

Report Explores School-Day Length - washingtonpost.com

Of course this all just leads to questions about funding, where's the money going to come from? will teachers get paid more? should we trim the fat in the teacher's union? will other industries suffer because kids will be in school instead of taking family vacations, going to summer camps etc...it's a fun little circle to start thinking about.

[MysteryMT]

On a side note for the OP, you may wanna let whoever will be grading/reviewing your paper in on CD. I know some teachers at the high school, college and graduate level that utilize tools to search the web to determine if a paper was plagiarized and even though all of this is your original work, they may not correlate whatever your real name is to forum name - ChicagoCubs. Or at least cite it in your works cited section as some sort of note.

[getatag]

Originally Posted by LLN

DB: If teaching is such a good deal, I am sure you are taking advantage and riding the gravy train. By the way, where do you teach, if you do not mind sharing:


To address more intelligent posts: The school year could VERY EASILY be shortened for 95% of the children and staff by terming school after the End of Grade Tests for those that pass all tests. We have almost three weeks after the tests to try to teach to children who know it is all over.

EVERYBODY stays at school, all the expenses continue to accrue so that kids can be re mediated and retests can be given.

Here is an idea: Put all the remediation people in one school, have the teachers involved in remediation teach them, and have ALL the other folks go home and quit costing money. As measured by the state and every other God foresaken entity in existance, the EOG is what matters, the EOG is what tells if you are doing good or not, the EOG is king.

Like so much in education, the focus and in this case the expense is on a very small minority, those that need to retest. I am not saying punish the kids that did not pass, not at all. I am saying continue remediation and retesting, but term the year for those that pass.

PS...Terminating school after successfule EOG tests MIGHT just be a little incentive for those that take these tests to lightly. It just might.

lln

lln, I don't want to let your one weak spot blemish my regard for the body of your work here.
I heartily agree with much of what you state above.
Educators clamor for quality time in the classroom and consistently admonish parents for taking their children out of school before the end of the instructional day. Such as trying to leave for a vacation which may well be very educational in nature, yet those same teachers squander several days prior to and following holidays, EOC's and EOG's with movies, field trips designed to "kill" time, classroom cleanup sessions, etc.

Test'em and move'm on! Why drill and kill'em after the fact for the benefit of a small minority of students that didn't pass.

[LLN]

Our EOG's were week before last.

That Friday I used our Accelerated Math Program in two classes, and remediated those that did not pass in the third..We have 3 teams and 80 or so minute classes. I had the Acc Math people work to reach the miminum number of objectives that I set back in April.

This past week, Tuesd, Wed, and Thursday I taught two sections on Probability (which is not in the 8th grade curriculum this year, but might be next). My EXTENSIVE study of other states EOG test for 8th graders indicates that a lot of states teach probability. I continute to remediate in the third (we mixed class up after the EOGs to accommodate remediation).

On friday I gave a test on probability, two block avg 89, and continued remediation, mostly slope and functions with the 10 of 74 (86% pass rate) that have not passed math EOG.

This week I am teaching two sections sequences (not in our SCS) and then, starting Wed, when retesting occurs, we are going to start with PROBLEMPALOOZA, a project where the students work in pairs, research other State EOG problems for their topic, then present the 10 problems to the class. It is a power point with graphics and music (other than inappropriate m music, which some will have)

The final Monday and Tuesday I am going back to some advanced exponent work, and will probably goof off on 1/2 on Wed.

I defy anyone to say I am taking time off (other than last 1/2 day). It is too hard in middle school NOT TO TEACH and I spit on movies.

lln

[jaynarie]

Originally Posted by DrummerBoy

Teachers have been riding the gravy train for a long time now: good pay and excellent benefits for a mere 8 months' work per year (I'm including all those obscure Holidays they have off, in addition to three months of summer, which, by the way, is ludicrous.) Why should teachers be spare from our attempt to trim government fat? We've been throwing money at education for a long time now, thinking (hoping?) it will help solve the myriad behavioral and cognitive ills which plague our kids, when of course the REAL problem lay at home, due to the breakdown of the traditional nuclear family. Teachers need a class called Reality 101. We need to trim their ranks so as to command quality. I've met too many lazy teachers who, when asked what the best part of their jobs are, smugly reply, "June, July and Ausust."

8 months? Really? I have from June 13th through August 17th off. How exactly is that 4 months? Even if you add a week and a half for Christmas break and a week for spring break in there, I am still not to 3 months off. Aside from those 2 breaks, teachers rarely get days off- unlike students. Labor Day, a few days for Thanksgiving and Memorial Day. That is it.

Look at any executive and I bet you will find they have at least 6-8 weeks vacation time. I have 10 and I bet I make a small fraction of most of their salaries.
Heck, my dad is a regular store manager for a major grocery chain and he has 8 weeks of vacation plus another 10 days in personal days, so he actually has MORE time off than I do. And, he does not take 10-20 hours of work home with him every week.

You need to find a teacher to shadow. Spend the summer with me and you will find that I am at my school working in my classroom at least once a week until August and once August hits, I am there at least 3-4 days a week until I have to report back. Plus all the preparation I do at home.

For the amount of education they are required to have, teachers are grossly underpaid. The majority of people in the private sector with the same amount of education make multiple times what a teacher makes.

[jaynarie]

Originally Posted by LLN

DB: If teaching is such a good deal, I am sure you are taking advantage and riding the gravy train. By the way, where do you teach, if you do not mind sharing:


To address more intelligent posts: The school year could VERY EASILY be shortened for 95% of the children and staff by terming school after the End of Grade Tests for those that pass all tests. We have almost three weeks after the tests to try to teach to children who know it is all over.

EVERYBODY stays at school, all the expenses continue to accrue so that kids can be re mediated and retests can be given.

Here is an idea: Put all the remediation people in one school, have the teachers involved in remediation teach them, and have ALL the other folks go home and quit costing money. As measured by the state and every other God foresaken entity in existance, the EOG is what matters, the EOG is what tells if you are doing good or not, the EOG is king.

Like so much in education, the focus and in this case the expense is on a very small minority, those that need to retest. I am not saying punish the kids that did not pass, not at all. I am saying continue remediation and retesting, but term the year for those that pass.

PS...Terminating school after successfule EOG tests MIGHT just be a little incentive for those that take these tests to lightly. It just might.

lln

I am all on board for that! I teach 5th grade so I have moved onto some 6th grade skills. I introduced integers the other day and a couple of smart-mouthed students said "Why do we have to do this? The EOGs are over. Can't we go outside all day?" Um... NO! You have three weeks of school left and we will be learning until the second to last day of school (field day and then the last days is an award ceremony followed by dismissal).
They were quite upset when I said I was not even collecting their books until the day before field day But, if you let the structure go, they get out of control! Plus, I would be bored to death!

[chicagocubs]

Thanks to all that contributed. There are some very valuable suggestions here and some great links. I have received my answer from the teacher (some of which are a bit surprising) but, here I go to finalize this.

And, just so everyone is clear: I am fully against paycuts for teachers. The job is very difficult, especially now with kids that are so undisciplined from the start that basic structure is a foreign concept. Now, I do agree with getting rid of the teachers that don't do their jobs and I am a banker, so, I am thinking that some kind of merit program needs to be in place....sorry, starting to write already!

thanks again.

[Tober138]

Originally Posted by chicagocubs

Now, I do agree with getting rid of the teachers that don't do their jobs and I am a banker, so, I am thinking that some kind of merit program needs to be in place....

Um...yeah...but the teachers' unions will never let that happen.

[getatag]

Originally Posted by Tober138

Um...yeah...but the teachers' unions will never let that happen.

No teacher's unions in NC. Associations, yes!

[Tober138]

Originally Posted by getatag

No teacher's unions in NC. Associations, yes!

Really? I learned something new today!