Pay cut for teachers v. quality of education (find a job, school)

[lowercountry]

Originally Posted by getatag

One example comes to mind that exemplifies your thought.
I recently heard a teacher complain about taking a slight negative adjustment in their salary. My comment to them was: Would you rather return a small percentage of your total across the board by all teachers or have several more teachers lose their jobs adding to the unemployment totals in the state? His answer astounded me. He said, release a few more poor teachers and let the good ones keep our money.

With thinking like that, we are ripe for the union's picking.

The poor economy has everyone eating their young, so to speak.

[TheEmissary]

Originally Posted by getatag

You cannot absolve them, just as you can't absolve management. Greed would be a word that comes to mind in both cases.

Thanks for the clarification lowercountry.

One example comes to mind that exemplifies your thought.
I recently heard a teacher complain about taking a slight negative adjustment in their salary. My comment to them was: Would you rather return a small percentage of your total across the board by all teachers or have several more teachers lose their jobs adding to the unemployment totals in the state? His answer astounded me. He said, release a few more poor teachers and let the good ones keep our money.

With thinking like that, we are ripe for the union's picking.

The same thing happened with banking - pay cut or layoffs. the majority chose layoffs. With a teacher's union only the non-tenured teachers (meaning the new teachers) can be laid off. They still get their negotiated pay raises of course! I have a great deal of sympathy for NC teachers, something I never had for NJ teachers. My sister's friend in Montclair NJ just got her newly revised tax bill for her 2500 sq ft home on an acre with a nice view of the New York skyline. Her new yearly tax bill - $34,000 a year. I'd be crying if I had to shell out $8500 every three months. Be careful what you wish for!

[lowercountry]

Originally Posted by TheEmissary

My sister's friend in Montclair NJ just got her newly revised tax bill for her 2500 sq ft home on an acre with a nice view of the New York skyline. Her new yearly tax bill - $34,000 a year. I'd be crying if I had to shell out $8500 every three months. Be careful what you wish for!

The irony is they move to NC to avoid the taxes, only to complain, "Well your schools are not NEARLY as what we had up North!"

[TheEmissary]

Originally Posted by lowercountry

The irony is they move to NC to avoid the taxes, only to complain, "Well your schools are not NEARLY as what we had up North!"

I've heard more than quite a few come up with that line! In my sister's friend's case both she and her husband are MDs. Their income would actually make it more expensive to move to NC because their NC state income tax would be much higher than NJ's and would more than offset the high NJ property tax, making it cheaper to live in NJ! That doesn't apply to too many people though! The really wealthy people in the Northeast buy a second home or usually re-locate to a state that doesn't have an income tax - Texas and Florida are good examples of this!

[jaynarie]

Something has to give, because no cap on classrooms in 4th-12th grade is not good!

I think the first thing that needs to be addressed is the cigarette tax. At 35 cents per pack, it is one of the lowest in the nation. Many states charge $2.00 or more. By increasing the cigarette tax to $2.00, it would raise over $1 billion in tax revenue per year. I am a full advocate of raising the tax, having lost all 4 grandparents to smoking related diseases while they were in their 60s. Raising the tax may be what some people need to quit. So, it is win/win in my opinion (more tax revenue and more lives saved).

I also think they need to look at what other states have done to reduce their payroll. Obviously, newer teachers are cheaper to employ. So, throw some money at a teacher who is teaching their 38th year (or whatever) and have them retire. Usually, someone with that much experience makes more than double what a newer teacher makes. So, by eliminating that one position, you can spend the same amount of money and employ 2 teachers.

[sophialee]

Originally Posted by jaynarie

Something has to give, because no cap on classrooms in 4th-12th grade is not good!

I think the first thing that needs to be addressed is the cigarette tax. At 35 cents per pack, it is one of the lowest in the nation. Many states charge $2.00 or more. By increasing the cigarette tax to $2.00, it would raise over $1 billion in tax revenue per year. I am a full advocate of raising the tax, having lost all 4 grandparents to smoking related diseases while they were in their 60s. Raising the tax may be what some people need to quit. So, it is win/win in my opinion (more tax revenue and more lives saved).

I also think they need to look at what other states have done to reduce their payroll. Obviously, newer teachers are cheaper to employ. So, throw some money at a teacher who is teaching their 38th year (or whatever) and have them retire. Usually, someone with that much experience makes more than double what a newer teacher makes. So, by eliminating that one position, you can spend the same amount of money and employ 2 teachers.

You're a little behind. The cigarette tax has been $1.35 per pack since March.

[anifani821]

Originally Posted by sophialee

You're a little behind. The cigarette tax has been $1.35 per pack since March.

Plus, please consider the gas tax, wh/ is one of the highest in the USA. We are taxed enuff already. The $$$ just needs to be used more wisely. It seems everyone wants everything these days. And what gets me is - people who have children who are causing distractions in the classroom expect the education system to somehow either "fix" their kids or work around them. School is a place children go to learn. Seems people put up a lot of obstacles to that in search of the "perfect" situation for their own kids - regardless of how many resources that costs everyone.

We can't have everything for everyone and the sooner people figure this out and start taking some responsibility . . . the better off everyone will be - children as well as teachers and parents. I know that isn't a popular opinion but I am just astounded at how parents seem to think their children are always the exception and everyone else has to pay the price for what in many cases are issues that need to be handled outside the classroom.

And . .. every school can't be a new school. So your kid's school doesn't have a new _____ (fill in the blank). People are gonna have to get real about how much it costs to educate their children - and where the money is coming from!!! I have noticed that the people (most often) screaming most about the quality of education their children are (or are not) getting are the same people who would never make the sacrifices to pay the tutors on their own, or get the psychological help their behavior-problem kid needs. Yet, they expect the rest of us to ante up to pick up their slack.

[NCN]

Most dedicated teachers are doing the job out of love for the children and the profession. And yes we should pay them all we can. They have pride in their profession and will not lower their standards because the pay is lower. When things get better, I hope the administration will not take advantage of these hard working people. It would be an improvement to lose those that are in it just for the money. Is that possible that someone is teaching for the money? LOL

[getatag]

Originally Posted by NCN

Most dedicated teachers are doing the job out of love for the children and the profession. And yes we should pay them all we can. They have pride in their profession and will not lower their standards because the pay is lower. When things get better, I hope the administration will not take advantage of these hard working people. It would be an improvement to lose those that are in it just for the money. Is that possible that someone is teaching for the money? LOL

NCN I know you mean well, and I understand what you are saying, but to lump Administrators into the group taking advantage of teachers is not correct. I know very few administrators NOW that weren't teachers. Most, if not all, still maintain their teaching certificate. Most administrators can't hold the position they hold without their teaching certificate. When I talk a Superintendent acquaintance of mine, the first thing out of his mouth is, "How can we save teaching positions?" He and other Superintendents are all trying to save as many teaching positions as they can. Bottom line is the state is cutting the education budget. Salaries are the biggest junk of school system's budgets.

[sophialee]

I think this is part of the reason my parents always sent us to private schools...which is what I plan to do w/ my children (no offense to public schools. Just too much uncertainty and problems.).