Pay cut for teachers v. quality of education (appointed, salary)

[vindaloo]

Originally Posted by Gumbo

Its a tough economy for everyone...teachers included. I'm sorry they are having to take a small paycut, but its better than a massive layoff.

Like other professions, teaching salaries should revolve around supply/demand. Right now there is a huge surplus of people trying to get into teaching as the economy is bad. As a result, a teacher unhappy with the decrease in pay can be replaced.

As far as quality goes, I don't believe CMS has a very effective barometer for measuring teaching performance. So I doubt the pay cut has too much of an influence on the quality of our teachers overall.

As a former teacher, you are absolutely correct on all points

[getatag]

Originally Posted by DrummerBoy

sorry to disappoint you low country but I have taught: blah, blah,blah, blah,blah, blah,blah, blah,blah, blah,blah, blah,blah, blah,blah, blah,blah, blah,blah, blah,blah, blah,blah, blah,blah, blah,blah, blah,blah, blah,blah, blah,blah, blah,blah, blah,blah, blah,blah, blah,blah, And by the way" my students loved me, as did the faculty, who wanted me to stay on full-time.

You have a low opinion of teachers and it shows. Stick with what you think you do best. Life's too short to do something you were ill-fitted for in the long run. Just don't bash someone else's profession after a summer of work as the resident "camp counselor". You don't speak from experience, you speak from your own biases.

[footballfan80]

Originally Posted by DrummerBoy

sorry to disappoint you low country but I have taught: I taught h.s. during summer school for some quick extra cash when I was between REAL jobs a few years ago. I found it very low pressure comapred to my previous (and current) vocation as a corporate QC director. I was home by 4 p.m. every day--something I never did before and I didn't lay in bed at night worrying about the old corporate dog-eat-dog pressure. Teaching was like re-living my childhood, which again, is why so many women do it: its a safe, low-ressure, insular warm blanket of academia, far removed from private sector pressures and demands to produce or hit the road. And by the way" my students loved me, as did the faculty, who wanted me to stay on full-time.

Maybe that's why so many children are failing not enough people worried about wether they are learning or not "You know no pressure!That I think is what really is wrong with the teaching of america. NO PRESSURE???? I wonder what the real cost of the grade of A is really worth on the childrens EOG in this country. Do teachers need to be paid fairly yes 100 per cent but the children need to be educated just as fairly. The children are the future of this country educated or uneducated which one are we going to get.

[lowercountry]

Originally Posted by DrummerBoy

sorry to disappoint you low country but I have taught: I taught h.s. during summer school for some quick extra cash when I was between REAL jobs a few years ago. I found it very low pressure comapred to my previous (and current) vocation as a corporate QC director. I was home by 4 p.m. every day--something I never did before and I didn't lay in bed at night worrying about the old corporate dog-eat-dog pressure. Teaching was like re-living my childhood, which again, is why so many women do it: its a safe, low-ressure, insular warm blanket of academia, far removed from private sector pressures and demands to produce or hit the road. And by the way" my students loved me, as did the faculty, who wanted me to stay on full-time.

I get it. You are a troll who has a grandiose sense of self-importance. Tell you what; riddle me this: think the world can get by without teachers moreso than your office job? I highly doubt society would be significantly different without your MBA types, at least the ones who believe themselves to be so self-important. The world without educators? Well, there'd be no MBAs that is for sure.
That, my friend, is where the proverbial rubber meets the road.

Again though, I still think you are either a troll, given how you toss insults for amusement.

Originally Posted by DrummerBoy

And again my challenge goes out for anyone to name me a profession that offers all that time off and those bennies for a mere bachelor's degree.

Congress... and they are paid a king's ransom and apparently most people believe good enough to lead the country (though I am not one of those people )

Originally Posted by getatag

You don't speak from experience, you speak from your own biases.

Oh, he's speaking from something all right, but it isn't his "biases."

[InformationPlease]

Originally Posted by DrummerBoy

... I work regular 60 hour weeks and must answer to a board of shareholders 24-7. ...

Oh com' on drummerboy...

My easiest weeks have been 60 hour weeks and I answer to people with severe and persistent mental illnesses 24-7 (life/death on occasion)... and likely make 1/3 of what you do salary-wise.

My point, who cares? This isn't a peeing contest. If it was, corporate America would lose... because on the whole, you are the ones with the most freedom to make choices in how you spend your leisure time, should it become available, due to the increase in socioeconomic status that tends to follow those positions.

No one has an easy job... if they did, it pretty much wouldn't be work. It would be lounging at the pool all day for cash. I think everyone should just stop pretending they know what the stressors of another person's job are at any given time. I used to get so frustrated when a few friends would complain about their long hours... if they had time to complain, their schedules clearly were not as full as my own... and as such, I had no sympathy for their worries.

Why add to the stress with meaningless posturing over who has the most difficult workday?

[getatag]

Originally Posted by lowercountry;9512136

Oh, he's speaking from something all right, but it isn't his [i

"biases."[/i]

Maybe he has two of them?

[neoflex]

Originally Posted by burnhagw

You know whats crazy though, there are some useless teachers out there and a hard working person like my wife who actually has a desire to teach kids can't. The amount of stress teachers go through... I can't imagine

Don't feel bad. My wife switched schools this past year, and because of it ended of getting layed off for being low man on the totem pole even though she has been teaching for over 8 years, plus her last two checks have had the pay deduction that they said would help keep teachers from being layed off. So not only did she lose her job but she gets to have a pay cut factored into her last two checks that was supposed to help her remain employed. Not to mention that she was the new teacher in that school this year and had the best test scores for the state exams for her grade level, has her Masters while others don't, has had parents request her for next year because she impressed both parents and faculty and yet she still got cut even though the principles tried fighting for her too, while the other teachers who do just enough to get by get to keep their jobs. The best was how the county was telling them, "If job cuts are made it will be based on performance and not years in the system." That turned out to be a load of cr@p. Another fun fact is the county has many teachers that are part of an overseas program and the teachers who are part of this program will only be here two to three years before they are sent back to their home country and these people where kept in place and not layed off. IMHO they should have been the first to go but instead they cut American teachers instead. Insanity!
This state has really proved to be backward when it comes to the education system. I understand budget cuts but the counties really could cut back in other areas other than education which should be priority number one after law enforcement.
To the guy bashing teachers, you have no idea buddy. I used to joke with my wife saying I wish I became a teacher but over the years I learned I do not have the patience for it. Summer camp is no way to judge an entire profession. You say people with MBAs etc are the real hard workers in this country but was it not people like yourself that ran all the banks and car manufacturers into the ground and is one of the main reasons why our economy is in shambles????? See I too can lump all you suit wearing double talkers into one group too. I hope your a smart guy that can make a living working from home while teaching your child or you marry or are married to a smart enough woman that can home school your child since you think teachers are such horrible people. Wake up big guy, it's 2009 not 1930. Woman have just as many rights as men and I am sure a woman can do your job better than you too. J-O

[vindaloo]

[quote=neoflex;9618951]
My wife switched schools this past year, and because of it ended of getting layed off for being low man on the totem pole even though she has been teaching for over 8 years,

--If she didn't have tenure in the CMS school district, the eight years means nothing little when lay offs are being considered.

Not to mention that she was the new teacher in that school this year and had the best test scores for the state exams for her grade level

--How does she know this? This is not public information and isn't given out.

has her Masters while others don't

--Important when getting hired, but not very important when being laid off. Most teachers have masters degrees. It is more important to have a masters in science or math than in social studies or sociology.

has had parents request her for next year because she impressed both parents and faculty and yet she still got cut even though the principles tried fighting for her too, while the other teachers who do just enough to get by get to keep their jobs.

--The principal is the one who decides who goes. Looks like her principal has pulled the wool over her eyes. I had parents say that they would not allow their child to have any other teacher than me. But, until I got tenure, I bounced around a time or two to different schoos like everyone else. It had all to do with the number of assigned students, etc.

The best was how the county was telling them, "If job cuts are made it will be based on performance and not years in the system." That turned out to be a load of cr@p.

--If it were based on performance, there would be problems with EEO
and other race motivated groups. The performance thing is definately a load of crap. There is no accurate measure for teachers performance generally speaking. It all has to do with the personalities and academic abilities of the students in the classroom. All the teacher has to do is follow the script and manage if he/she has good students. On the other hand, the teacher with poor, disruptive students has to manage, control, counsel, discipline, and become involved in other variables that take time away from teaching.


Another fun fact is the county has many teachers that are part of an overseas program and the teachers who are part of this program will only be here two to three years before they are sent back to their home country and these people where kept in place and not layed off.

-- No big surprise. Lots of politics involved here.


This state has really proved to be backward when it comes to the education system. I understand budget cuts but the counties really could cut back in other areas other than education which should be priority number one after law enforcement.

--Nothing to do with backwards, it is all to do with student/teacher ratio and special programs, etc. It is no different in other states. Using backwards as the reason is incorrect but pleasing to many prejudiced northerners.

I hope that your wife has luck in getting back into the system. The system has many flaws. This is not unique to this area. It is everywhere. Schools are not managed by managers. They are managed by educators that know nothing about management. That is a problem in most cases.

[vindaloo]

Originally Posted by DrummerBoy

Oh c'mon Jay! You dare tout the Amount of education teachers need? A mere Bachelor's degree is enough, while those "executives" you cite usually have MBA's. (Which, I must humbly submit, I have.) And I have never gotten 6-8 weeks vacay in my life! Surely you are aware that kids are in school a mere 180-days a year, which equals six months. And sure, you might put in a day here or there is summer, but big deal: I work regular 60 hour weeks and must answer to a board of shareholders 24-7. Execs can be fored at the drop of a hat due to the increasingly volatile market, while a teacher has to kill someone or have sex with a student to be axed. No two ways about it: they have it easy, which is why so many woman are teachers: no pressure. Tell me another vocation one with a mere BA degree can aspire to that offers the combined pay and time off a teacher enjoys. See?

As a former educator, my workday continued for hours after the students left. I had to do lesson plans, attend meetings both with faculty and parents, and grade papers. My "planning" time during the day was spent at meetings mostly. Although I had a retirement and was more financially sound than most other teachers, I never understood how a married couple that taught could manage on their pay. The health insurance benefits were comparitively horrible and costly in my school district, and the basic pay would hardly allow one to buy a descent house. Additionally, most teachers find it neccessary to obtain summer jobs that often pay close to minimum wage

Like other professions, there are teachers that do minimum. Some of these remain in the system due to politics, etc. This is typical everywhere regardless of job. A successful teacher has to be very flexible to be successful. This is not the same as being an MBA nurd that sits at a desks all day and plays with numbers or drinks coffee while adhering to some silly little job description.

[neoflex]

[quote=vindaloo;9622743]

Originally Posted by neoflex

My wife switched schools this past year, and because of it ended of getting layed off for being low man on the totem pole even though she has been teaching for over 8 years,

--If she didn't have tenure in the CMS school district, the eight years means nothing little when lay offs are being considered.

Who said anything about CMS? I am talking about Union County but nice assumption!

Not to mention that she was the new teacher in that school this year and had the best test scores for the state exams for her grade level

--How does she know this? This is not public information and isn't given out.

Again, wrong as the test grades become common knowledge within the schools

has her Masters while others don't

--The principal is the one who decides who goes. Looks like her principal has pulled the wool over her eyes. I had parents say that they would not allow their child to have any other teacher than me. But, until I got tenure, I bounced around a time or two to different schoos like everyone else. It had all to do with the number of assigned students, etc.

Yet again wrong as she was cc'ed the letter the principle sent to the county supervisor who was in charge of who was to go and his ruling were all new teachers and teachers hired interim, no if ands or buts


This state has really proved to be backward when it comes to the education system. I understand budget cuts but the counties really could cut back in other areas other than education which should be priority number one after law enforcement.

--Nothing to do with backwards, it is all to do with student/teacher ratio and special programs, etc. It is no different in other states. Using backwards as the reason is incorrect but pleasing to many prejudiced northerners.

Nice way to incorporate an easy dig at northerners. Not really impressed!