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Old 06-21-2009, 07:38 AM
 
Location: Up above the world so high!
45,168 posts, read 57,238,212 times
Reputation: 38453

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PS - Happy Fathers Day to you too

 
Old 06-21-2009, 07:49 AM
 
Location: CLT native
4,282 posts, read 7,165,505 times
Reputation: 2179
sassy-

You will find affluent Americans of various skin pigments in every affluent neighborhood.
As has already been stated, money is really the only thing that keeps people segregated these days.
 
Old 06-21-2009, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Yellow Brick Road
35,607 posts, read 43,927,551 times
Reputation: 20333
I see some accurate statements on this thread so far . . . and some inaccurate ones, as well.

First of all, it is correct that there are no new luxury or upscale neighborhoods that are predominantly or totally made up of black families. This is a phenomenon seen in Atlanta, for example - luxury homes in all black subdivisions. These neighborhoods were essentially built by developers who were providing a neighborhood for wealthy black families who preferred being segregated in their own neighborhood.

That is not what has occurred here in Charlotte. There are many reasons for this but "white flight" is definitely not one of those reasons.

The burbs here are the same as they have been for 200 years as far as being mostly white. Before those towns on the periphery of Charlotte experienced high growth, they were made up of rural, agrarian, white folks, many of whom were farmers, living on land that had been in families for literally 100 plus years. Now that is a fact. The major growth in such places as Mooresville, Huntersville, Cornelius, for example, has come from people relocating into this region (thus creating a bedroom community for commuters to Charlotte) and has occurred in the last 10-15 years. So to say these areas were created by "white flight" (a 1960-80 wave) is absolutely erroneous. The growth in those areas is not exclusive of minorities, and had more to do w/ price point in housing (where families could afford to buy/rent) than any other factor.

Here in Charlotte, integration meant black families moving into what had always been white neighborhoods. Loves accurately described what occurred in both white and black neighborhoods when people were displaced b/c of major highway construction. (See post # 10 above).

Further, Charlotte has been under close federal scrutiny since the 60s and the Civil Rights Movement, leading to highly conscientious oversight by both lenders and developers to make sure that no particular area would have any appearance at all of discriminating against black home buyers. Segregation has been maintained in white neighborhoods based solely on the fact that some areas were simply out of financial reach of everyone but the wealthiest amongst us. Most of us, regardless of ethnicity, simply can't afford $1 M + homes.

The phenomena of McMansions on small lots outside Hwy. 51 to the South, for example, occurred only in the last 10 years. The exception to that would be country clubs, such as Piper's Glen, wh/ were built prior to 2000. Why do I mention this? There simply was not a market for more houses in the $800 K and up price range until that time.

In the last 10 years, newcomers relocated here as jobs opened - often, high paying jobs. People arrived w/ large downpayments and were seeking "executive" type housing. Since the Southpark area had always provided enuff housing for anyone who could afford it, the city simply did not have a large selection of luxury houses available inside Hwy 51. Very little open land was left in what had been considered the most upscale area of the city - South Charlotte. Plus, a new trend became obvious when the relocation wave started: families arrived and wanted new houses, not re-sales, creating a wave of knockdowns of existing, modestly price homes . . . along with subdivisions created south (Ballantyne and Union County) and southwest (Palisades, etc.) of the city.

So that is how neighborhoods have developed here in Mecklenburg Co. It has been a matter of wealth.

Realtors would lose their licenses if they were ever to suggest that one neighborhood is predominantly made up of black families (or caucasian, asian, hispanic, etc) - upscale or not. Because of federal oversight . . . even landlords must be extremely cautious of giving any appearance at all of discriminating on the basis of race. The goal for Charlotte in the last 40 years has been to ensure that all neighborhoods are integrated - and that such things as redlining do not occur.
 
Old 06-21-2009, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Morgantown, WV and Charlotte, NC
99 posts, read 160,985 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
The burbs here are the same as they have been for 200 years as far as being mostly white...Now that is a fact.

The major growth in such places as Mooresville, Huntersville, Cornelius, for example, has come from people relocating into this region...So to say these areas were created by "white flight" (a 1960-80 wave) is absolutely erroneous.
Okay...now I am not going to get a heated debate about something I just wrote a thesis about, but I will respond to what you have said.

1. The "suburbs" of Charlotte didn't exist 200 years ago, and that was not the topic of the conversation. The topic is affluent African-American neighborhoods which you have correctly indicated did not exist in a non-existent Charlotte surburbia 200 years ago or now. Charlotte was nowhere near a modern hub (perhaps more so a trading point or connect between larger east coast cities) for business where Huntersville, Concord, Gastonia, Fort Mill, and the like would be considered "suburbs" of Charlotte for causasians or african americans.

2. Additionally, "white flight" has traditionally meant areas of a city that causasians have exited due to minority infusion particularly as it relates to inner city regions of major metropolitan areas. I believe that if you re-read my post I am talking about the city of Charlotte and not the areas (separate cities that were already present) that newcomers attempt to latch onto Charlotte. Most outlying towns of major cities and the outer regions of the major city itself have seen a spike in their populations (the very towns you are describing) because of the "fact" that caucasians who once dominated the population of inner city areas like North Charlotte, Wilmore, and the like left as minorities were able to afford the homes beside them. (1950s and on) Of course, it would be complete lunacy for me to discount the fact that people are moving from other places to these communities. People are moving all the time that however does not discount what I said about Charlotte.

One more thing...Charlotte has prospered as a young city largely due to effective city planning. Whether people decide to recognize it or not, cities that are able to partition a parcel of land for particular segments of society will always prosper to a certain degree. I have a Master's Degree in Geography and one of my best friends was the city planner for one of the cities in the surrounding Charlotte area. When you examine the city plans of Charlotte for the past 60 years it is easy to categorize parts of Charlotte as direct results of white flight and the accompanying problems. It is a good thing to have pride in one's city, but it is "absolutely erroneous" to believe that Charlotte was somehow lying in a bubble free from the rest of the world's problems. The fact that Charlotte doesn't have a fixed, affluent community of minorities simply underscores the historical "fact" that much like the rest of the South and America for that matter, Charlotte was not conducive to the upliftment of a massive amount of minorites, and this "fact/opinion" is from someone who leans more towards Republican ideals in almost every way. No doubt, money has a hand in everything, but historically speaking it's not the only thing at play.

Happy Father's Day! Time to go play golf with my daughter!

Last edited by 1WVULAWGRAD; 06-21-2009 at 10:04 AM..
 
Old 06-21-2009, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Yellow Brick Road
35,607 posts, read 43,927,551 times
Reputation: 20333
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1WVULAWGRAD View Post
Okay...now I am not going to get a heated debate about something I just wrote a thesis about, but I will respond to what you have said.

1. The suburbs of Charlotte didn't exist 200 years ago, and that was not the topic of the conversation. The topic is affluent African-American neighborhoods which you have correctly indicated did not exist in a non-existent Charlotte surburbia 200 years ago or now. Charlotte was nowhere near a modern hub for business where Huntersville, Concord, Gastonia, Fort Mill, and the like would be considered "suburbs" of Charlotte for causasians or african americans.

2. Additionally, "white flight" has traditionally meant areas of town that causasians have exited due to minority infusion particularly as it relates to inner city regions of major metropolitan areas. I believe that if you re-read my post I am talking about the city of Charlotte and not the areas (separate cities that were already present) that newcomers attempt to latch onto Charlotte. Most outlying towns of major cities and the outer regions of the major city itself have seen a spike in their populations (the very towns you are describing) because of the "fact" that caucasians who once dominated the population of inner city areas like North Charlotte, Wilmore, and the like left as minorities were able to afford the homes beside them.

One more thing...Charlotte has prospered as a young city largely due to effective city planning. Whether people decide to recognize it or not, cities that are able to partition a parcel of land for particular segments of society will always prosper to a certain degree. I have a Master's Degree in Geography and one of my best friends was the city planner for one of the cities in the surrounding Charlotte area. When you examine the city plans of Charlotte for the past 60 years it is easy to categorize parts of Charlotte as direct results of white flight and the accompanying problems. It is a good thing to have pride in one's city, but it is "simply erroneous" to believe that Charlotte was somehow lying in a bubble free from the rest of the world's problems. The fact that Charlotte doesn't have a fixed, affluent community of minorities simply underscores the historical "fact" that much like the rest of the South and America for that matter, Charlotte was not conducive to the upliftment of a massive amount of minorites, and this "fact/opinion" is from someone who leans more towards Republican ideals in almost every way.
I am not going to debate you on this b/c you obviously have a political agenda and I do not.

However, the history of this region is that a lot of the black folks who could have established themselves here left the region, choosing to go to other cities to establish their careers, leaving Charlotte bereft of up and coming black professionals for most of the 20th Century. Charlotte has not been a city that has been especially fertile for professional black people to rise up the ranks - and to create personal wealth. At least that has been what my black friends have told me. I am not black so all I can relate is what I have synthesized thru/ living here coupled with what my friends have told me about their personal experiences.

What I have been told is that in the last decade, more black professionals with roots in this region have started moving back to this area, as there are more opportunities now. They are seeing Charlotte as more progressive than the city has been in the past.

As for the rest of what you had to say, you either have misunderstood what I wrote or you are deliberately choosing to misread it. You are incorrect about white flight, plain and simple. And you do not seem to recognize that many black families were displaced when the path of highways was chosen through this city . . . a path that was selected with the express purpose of "cleaning up" poor black areas of the city. Yet, little or no assistance was available to create new housing for these displaced folks.

I find it insulting for you to suggest that I have a political bias wh/ somehow clouds my understanding of what has gone on in this city. The city planning has definitely NOT been inclusive of minority concerns until well into the last part of the 20th Century and I was not suggesting otherwise.

BTW - Charlotte is not a "young city" and the history of the development of this city's burbs, as well as the bedroom communities, can be easily traced based on population growth. You may have a degree in geography but you need to get your head out of the substrata and learn more about the demographics going on the ground where people are actually living.

ETA: Why not examine "black flight" and the negative impact this had on creating wealth in Charlotte's black communities? Although I feel Charlotte has come a long way since the 1950s, this hasn't been the most progressive city in the South.

Last edited by anifani821; 06-21-2009 at 10:23 AM..
 
Old 06-21-2009, 11:20 AM
 
1,039 posts, read 1,816,562 times
Reputation: 465
Having grown up in Charlotte I would suggest the following to any upper-middle class or affluent African-American family. Choose your home based on location, schools, proximity to work, crime statistics... Then you will certainly find some African-American families within that neighborhood. In addition look for a prodominetly African-American church and there you can establish friendships with people who are of your same background/cutural experience. I completely get the rationale behind looking for people you feel comfortable with but here in Charlotte you may not find it in your neighborhood alone. Good luck to you...
 
Old 06-21-2009, 11:47 AM
 
Location: caribbean island
5,462 posts, read 5,214,858 times
Reputation: 1907
Default Only on Father's Day

Quote:
Originally Posted by sassys1745 View Post
I am just curious. Where do the affluent African Americans/Upper Middle Class live in Charlotte (which neighborhoods). My Aunt was just talking about moving to Charlotte and now my mom wants to retire there in a year. I was just curious as to which neighborhoods should they check out.

Thanks
I ONLY get a little giggly once a year...on Father's Day. So, I'm here to tell you that if your Aunt or Mother, has a few bux, this white carpetbagger from NYC that has a house or two in Charlotte would love to live right next door to them.

I'm serious, no if and or buts. Send them down and I'll put them right under my wing. If the community is not affluent when we start it will be when we're done. Only problem I have is whether or not they'll accept ME!

John
 
Old 06-21-2009, 11:51 AM
 
Location: caribbean island
5,462 posts, read 5,214,858 times
Reputation: 1907
Ani...watch out for those that are grads of law shool. I have a couple in my family including my first born child. In addition those w/a masters in geography are especially dangerous.They can spot CLT on a map faster than you can say "Charlotte!"
 
Old 06-21-2009, 12:11 PM
 
Location: South Charlotte
233 posts, read 630,249 times
Reputation: 149
Default Yep!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gkleoni1 View Post
Having grown up in Charlotte I would suggest the following to any upper-middle class or affluent African-American family. Choose your home based on location, schools, proximity to work, crime statistics... Then you will certainly find some African-American families within that neighborhood. In addition look for a predominantly African-American church and there you can establish friendships with people who are of your same background/cutural experience. I completely get the rationale behind looking for people you feel comfortable with but here in Charlotte you may not find it in your neighborhood alone. Good luck to you...
That's pretty much what I have stated in the past.
 
Old 06-21-2009, 12:38 PM
 
2,196 posts, read 2,583,795 times
Reputation: 1487
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
I am not going to debate you on this b/c you obviously have a political agenda and I do not.

Not interested in getting into the debate (as I am not from the area) but wondering about places like the Hickory Grove area, Eastland Mall area... This may be East Charlotte? I was told that these area's used to be predominantly middle/upper middle class White until minorities startd moving in. Is that what you are referring to as White flight? I think that' the sort of thing the caller means.

Also, I was told that the area that seperates Wesley Heights from uptown(I guess where 77 is now by Johnson C Smith) was an affluent Black community before the freeway divided the area. Fact or Fiction

I would also tell the OP, that you aunt should look for a community she likes. There is no area like Baldwin Hills or Ladera Heights in Charlotte
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