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Old 08-03-2009, 08:05 PM
 
11,922 posts, read 21,503,013 times
Reputation: 11694

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Sounds to me like you were one of the 20% that bought when they weren't going to. "The people" subsidized your car purchase to the tune of around $20,000 for you to get $4,500 cash back. Not a very efficient use of tax payer dollars.

 
Old 08-03-2009, 09:12 PM
 
Location: Wouldn't you like to know?
9,114 posts, read 15,666,769 times
Reputation: 3695
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stripes17 View Post
With the program, we were able to solve several of our wants and needs. Gee, imagine that! An incentive program where people are actually incented to take action for the common good. (Even for this Republican!)

!
If Ford, GM, or Crysler wanted to, why didn't they just offer this "incentive" themselves w/o taxpayer money? They could of done it, correct?

Why do I have to fork over money for you to buy a new car? Let the car companies do it themself.

Oh yeah, I forgot, I own GM and Crysler....
 
Old 08-03-2009, 10:54 PM
 
Location: Huntersville
1,852 posts, read 4,672,818 times
Reputation: 525
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelsup View Post
Do you really believe this? Even assuming the ENTIRE 250,000 vehicles were bought because of this program, the dent is so small it's not even funny. There are Roughly 250,000,000 cars in America. This is roughly 1/1000 of a percent or .001% of all cars in America.

We'd be better off putting a cork in every cow's butt.

OK let's go with your thinking. Why then was the MPG limited to 18? And why only 4 MPG increase?

18->22 is 22% increase in MPG.

Why didn't the program mandate a % increase in MPG? Why would a car that got 10 MPG being traded in for a car that got 18 MPG (an 80% increase) not qualify?

Why do cars that are older than 25 years old not qualify?

There are too many holes in your argument to think this is for the environment. If you buy that you are a sucker.



You bring up another great point. Cars sales that would have happened later on in the year are being done now. In other words later in the year there will be even more of a sales slump.



I didn't understand what you wrote. 200,000 people on average would have bought anyway. $4500 credit or not. We are spending $1,000,000,000 or $20,000 on each incremental sale. Spending $20,000 to credit $4,500 isn't the way to get out of a recession.
I think you read way too much into my statements. I said there are multiple benefits to the program. One of them is taking 250,000 clunkers off the road. No it's not going to save the world. But do you really think everything is fixed immediatly. We have to start somewhere. Again I stated my opinion and I will leave it at that, you can happily disagree.

And I am so happy people can't imagine government programs helping others. What a ME driven society. Guess what the WHOLE Economy is screwed up, and WE ALL have to pay for it, in some way shape or form. There are people abusing or avoiding the system, shame on them. People make more money than us, oh wells, people trade in a car and get a gov't deal. Sweet for them, sad for us. Can you not find any positive in this program? Do you know of better ways. Let's hear some alternatives?
 
Old 08-04-2009, 04:25 AM
 
Location: Some got six month some got one solid. But me and my buddies all got lifetime here
4,551 posts, read 9,284,521 times
Reputation: 2121
Quote:
Originally Posted by CouponJack View Post
If Ford, GM, or Crysler wanted to, why didn't they just offer this "incentive" themselves w/o taxpayer money? They could of done it, correct?

Why do I have to fork over money for you to buy a new car? Let the car companies do it themself.

Oh yeah, I forgot, I own GM


And which company insures a lot of the policies of GM bondholders?


AIG.


 
Old 08-04-2009, 08:14 AM
 
4,222 posts, read 6,723,533 times
Reputation: 1560
Fits right in with national health, both being absolutly insane. Americans can buy their own damn cars and bail out unions and car manufacturers without using my tax money. If they have any sense, they will stick to the Japanese cars. They are economical and last. The program is a perfect superficial, time restrictive fix for nothing. On the bright side of the situation, China can use the scrape metal to build their economy and build tanks, weapons, etc.
 
Old 08-04-2009, 01:43 PM
 
11,922 posts, read 21,503,013 times
Reputation: 11694
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whytewulf View Post
And I am so happy people can't imagine government programs helping others. What a ME driven society.
This is a Republic. If you want to live in socialist state please move. There are those of us here that still value our freedom.

The Governments purpose is not to provide welfare.

Quote:
One of them is taking 250,000 clunkers off the road.
I really can't see how you believe this is about the environment when you simply look at the facts and examples I posted. But I guess if it makes you feel better, "ignorance is bliss". Here's an example of a clunker being destroyed...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waj2KrKYTZo

What a clunker eh?
 
Old 08-04-2009, 01:52 PM
 
Location: Ayrsley
4,714 posts, read 8,473,392 times
Reputation: 3814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whytewulf View Post
But the point of the program wasn't just as a spur to the economy it was to get 250,000 "clunkers" off the road. Cars with...bad emmisions, bad safety...
But don't many states already require that cars pass safety and / or emissions inspections in order to be registered in their respective states already? If so, then shouldn't these existing programs have kept those cars off of the road to begin with?

Just sayin'....
 
Old 08-04-2009, 01:57 PM
 
Location: Ayrsley
4,714 posts, read 8,473,392 times
Reputation: 3814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stripes17 View Post
I wouldn't have bought without the program. We would have kept putting bubble gum and band aids on the kids' car until we were forced to junk it. Then he'd probably wind up with some other $1K POS car until that died out too.
And that is such a shame when kids are forced to drive inexpensive POS cars. How about another program to ensure that all kids can get a nice, new car right out of the gate? My first car was a POS (so was my second one for that matter). My parents' attitude was: if you want a better car, get a job to pay for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stripes17 View Post
In fact, I do have a complaint with the program. I think they should pay $1K less for your clunker if you buy a foreign car. Our big 3 car companies can use a little incentive as well. If you want to buy a foreign car and send the profits to overseas governments, then your incentive is less than those folks who buy cars that keep the profits here in the USA. It's about time we stopped playing nice guy to the world and started looking out for our own!
Yes - because all foreign cars are 100% built and shipped over here to the States, and all cars made by U.S. Manufacturers are 100% U.S. parts and labor.
 
Old 08-04-2009, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Huntersville
1,852 posts, read 4,672,818 times
Reputation: 525
Geez guys... If it makes you feel better, it's a couple grains of sand of help in a beach full of issues. But maybe, just maybe it will be a good thing. I am not ignorant of the issues today, but trying to think of or work towards positive outcomes with what is given.

I understand we are republic and in no case do I want us to be a welfare society, but even in a republic there are sometimes tough choices in an attempt to "do it for the common good for societies benefit as a whole". Many times these fail or outrage us. And I surely hope no one on here needs gov't help for anything, though personally, I like many of the roads, military, science, medical, education programs the gov't(taxpayers) pays for. Do I like them all, absolutley not.

So I understand several people don't like this program. And this is just a question. Can you think of better ideas? I am not sure we will all agree to any one concept, but ya never know, what spurs ideas. As far as the stimus package, I still see this as a better option vs some others. I would have liked more direct job creation.
 
Old 08-04-2009, 02:41 PM
 
11,922 posts, read 21,503,013 times
Reputation: 11694
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whytewulf View Post
And I surely hope no one on here needs gov't help for anything, though personally, I like many of the roads, military, science, medical, education programs the gov't(taxpayers) pays for. Do I like them all, absolutley not.
I guess you don't realize what is in the constitution then.

Quote:
Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts,
by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
Most of what you mentioned in your sarcastic tirade is constitutionally protected.

Quote:
So I understand several people don't like this program. And this is just a question. Can you think of better ideas? I am not sure we will all agree to any one concept, but ya never know, what spurs ideas. As far as the stimus package, I still see this as a better option vs some others. I would have liked more direct job creation.
I have a better solution. Not spending $20,000 so consumers can get a credit of $4,500. And mandating a % increase in MPG not just a number. Trading in a Volvo that got 20 MPG for a Prius that gets 50 MPG would be better for the environment, no? But that wasn't allowed. Why was the program set up the way it was?

It was dumb and a waste of OUR money and you know it.
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