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Old 09-01-2009, 07:35 PM
 
27,903 posts, read 34,347,414 times
Reputation: 4031

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Just for kicks use this performance calculator. It starts with 1200 CFM. Change that number to 1,100 CFM and compare the performance of the system. This is something that would typically happen with clogged coils, fan or dirty filter...

Psychrometric and Coil Performance Calculator - EfficientComfort.com
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Old 09-02-2009, 09:32 AM
 
4,010 posts, read 8,924,417 times
Reputation: 1585
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
You obviously have no idea of the stipulations of a warranty coming from an HVAC/R company and the mfg's, you should try reading the owners manuals. The advice you provide is going to leave someone or more than someone up **** creek without a paddle.
You say that, so provide some proof this is a requirement for maintaining a warranty on a modern HVAC. I randomly pulled the one from Trane, I don't mind if you pick another.

"This limited warranty does not cover failure of your air handler if it is damaged while in your possession; including, but not limited to (1)damage caused by unreasonable use, (2) damage from failure to properly maintain as set forth in the Use and Care manual (refer to “ProperMaintenance” section), (3) damage that is not considered a manufacturing defect, such as acts of God, malfunctions or failures resulting fromfire, water, storms, lightning, earthquake, faulty power supply or power surges, corrosive environments, insect or vermin infestation, theft,riot, misuse, abuse, increased utility usage costs, or (4) performance problems due to improper selection / equipment match-up, installation or application.
It also says it has to be installed by licensed people to local codes. So standard stuff. Now what does it say about Proper Maintenance? They encourage people to have their dealer come out and check the system each year. They do not require it to maintain the warranty.

Now if you have something in writing that proves otherwise, then please post it. Maybe there is a manufacturer that states that you have to have a professional check it each year to maintain a warranty, but I would suspect they would be getting into some tricky legal ground if they did.
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Old 09-02-2009, 10:06 AM
 
27,903 posts, read 34,347,414 times
Reputation: 4031
Default Since you used TRANE

Quote:
(2) damage from failure to properly maintain as set forth in the Use and Care manual (refer to “ProperMaintenance” section)
Quote:
A heat pump is not a household appliance. It’s a self-contained system that requires professional maintenance and repair. That’s why attempts at “do-it-yourself” repairs on an in-warranty unit may void the remainder of your warranty. Other than performing the simple maintenance recommended in this manual, you should not attempt to make any adjustments to your heat pump system. Your dealer will be able to take care of any questions or problems you may have.

Call your dealer for additional routine maintenance Your heat pump system should be inspected regularly by a properly trained service technician. The inspection (preferably twice each year, but at least once a year) should include the following:
• Routine inspection of air filter(s).
Replacement or cleaning as required.
• Inspection and cleaning of the blower
wheel, housing, and motor as required.
• Inspection and, if required, cleaning of
indoor and outdoor coils.
• Inspection of the indoor coil drain pan,
plus the primary and secondary drain
lines. If supplied, the auxiliary drain pan
and line should be inspected at this
time. Service should include cleaning,
if required.
• A check of all electrical wiring and
connections.
• A check for secure physical
connections of individual components
within units.
• Operational check for the heat pump
system to determine actual working
condition. Necessary repair and/or
adjustment should be performed at
this time.
• Your servicing dealer may offer an
economical service or preventative
maintenance agreement that covers
seasonal inspections. Ask your
dealer for further details.
The Warnings:

Quote:
To prevent injury, death, or property damage, read
and follow all instructions and warnings, including
labels shipped with or attached to unit before
operating your new air conditioning system.

Disconnect all electrical power to the indoor air
handler or furnace before removing access panels
to perform any maintenance. Disconnect power to
both the indoor and outdoor units. NOTE: There
may be more than one electrical disconnect
switch. Electric shock can cause personal injury
or death.

Although special care has been taken to minimize
sharp edges in the construction of your unit, be
extremely careful when handling parts or reaching
into the unit.

Condensate drains should be checked and cleaned
periodically to assure condensate can drain freely
from coil to drain. If condensate cannot drain freely,
water damage could occur.

Improper installation, adjustment, alteration,
service, maintenance, or use can cause explosion,
fire, electrical shock, or other conditions which
may cause personal injury or property damage.
Consult a qualified installer or service agency for
information or assistance. The qualified installer
or agency must use factory-authorized kits or
accessories when modifying this product.
http://www.bluedotmd.com/pdf/XL14iHeat.pdf

You're just dangerous. As you say we can use another MFG if you'd like... They all say typically the same thing. If you want your system to live a long life you'll need to check more than just the coils and filter. Someone should send you a cease and desist letter...
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Old 09-02-2009, 10:22 AM
 
27,903 posts, read 34,347,414 times
Reputation: 4031
One example of someone that found out the hard way:

Friend calls me to look at her unit which is not running anymore, a 3 year old system with no PM contract. I get to the unit and notice the compressor isn't coming on. I check all voltage up to the contactor and it's fine. I check across the contactor and there is a voltage drop of 2 volts. I look at the contactor and it had gotten some debris in it which caused chattering and eventually bad pitting of the contactor. I check the resistance of the compressor windings and find the start winding had shorted. I told the friend to call the installing contractor. They came out replaced the compressor and handed the friend a bill for $1200. that didn't include parts because the installing contractor worked with them. That was all labor. The friend called me to verify that what they did was correct and why it was so much. I told then that it may have happened shortly after installing the system and that on routine PM's they would have checked something like what caused this compressor to go out. Basically I said it would have been caught early-on and that it wouldn't have gotten as bad as it did to cause a failure. I asked them how much the PM contract would have cost them if they'd gotten it. They replies $150/year. For the $1200 they had to spend on the compressor replacement they could have gotten 8 years of routine maintenance.


You tell me if it's worth it or not. Not everyone is an electrical engineer capable of knowing everything and giving advice about things they know little to nothing about...
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Old 09-02-2009, 12:35 PM
 
4,010 posts, read 8,924,417 times
Reputation: 1585
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
....
You're just dangerous. As you say we can use another MFG if you'd like... They all say typically the same thing. If you want your system to live a long life you'll need to check more than just the coils and filter. Someone should send you a cease and desist letter...
Sir you are putting words in my mouth now. I never said that you should do your own repair work on these devices. This is a disingenous argument that has no basis in the question being asked. You said that you HAVE to have an inspection done, to maintain your warranty. You have not proved this. Furthermore the OP which I originally responded to did not ask where to have repair work done.

Go back and read what I posted again. You either have not done this or can't comprehend it. Calling me names, instead of proving your statement isn't anyway to get your point across.

One more time, show me a warranty statement that says you HAVE to have an INSPECTION done every year to maintain a warranty. They don't exist.
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Old 09-02-2009, 07:13 PM
 
27,903 posts, read 34,347,414 times
Reputation: 4031
The people with a vested interest already have all the information needed... Feel free to keep on but those people with an interest have been fairly warned.
Quote:
REGULAR DEALER MAINTENANCE
In addition to the routine maintenance that you perform, your
home comfort system should be inspected regularly by a properly
trained service technician. Many dealers offer this service at a
reduced rate with a service contract. Some service contracts offer
additional benefits such as parts discounts and no additional charge
for ”after hours” or emergency service.
Your annual system inspection should include:
S Routine inspection of air filter(s) with replacement or cleaning
as required
S Inspection and cleaning of the blower wheel housing and
motor
S Inspection and, if required, cleaning of indoor and outdoor
coils
S Inspection of the indoor coil drain pan, as well as the primary
and secondary drain lines. If the system has an auxiliary drain
pan and line, they should be inspected at this time as well.
Service should include cleaning if required.
S Check all electrical wiring and connections
S Check for secure physical connections of individual parts in
each unit
S Operational check of the heat pump system to determine actual
working condition. Necessary repair and, or adjustment should
be performed at this time.
http://www.docs.hvacpartners.com/idc...lit/om25-3.pdf
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Old 09-02-2009, 07:22 PM
 
27,903 posts, read 34,347,414 times
Reputation: 4031
Quote:
Goodman is not responsible for:
1. Damage or repairs required as a consequence of faulty
installation or application.
2. Damage as a result of floods, fires, winds, lightning,
accidents, corrosive atmosphere or other conditions
beyond the control of Goodman.
3. Use of components or accessories not compatible with
this unit.
4. Products installed outside the United States or Canada.
5. Normal maintenance as described in the installation and
operating manual, such as cleaning of the coils, filter
cleaning and/or replacement and lubrication.
http://www.goodmanmfg.com/Portals/0/pdf/PWCACHPPB.pdf (broken link)
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Old 09-02-2009, 07:38 PM
 
27,903 posts, read 34,347,414 times
Reputation: 4031
Quote:
Home > Owners > Frequently Asked Questions > Warranty Information
Lennox Warranty Frequently Asked Questions

Lennox Warranty Information

What does the warranty cover?
What is the Lennox 10-Year Extended Limited Warranty Program?
Who is responsible for giving me the basic Lennox Equipment Limited Warranty certificate and the notification of the 10-Year Extended Limited Warranty Program?
What is the difference between the Lennox Equipment Limited Warranty and the Lennox 10-Year Extended Limited Warranty Program?
How do I register for the Lennox 10-Year Extended Limited Warranty Program?
What information do I need to register?
What Lennox products are eligible for this 10-Year Extended Limited Warranty Program?
Is this extended limited warranty retroactive?
Can equipment be registered after 90 days from either the installation date or closing date in the case of a newly constructed home?
I live in a state or province where registration is not required. Do I qualify for the extended limited warranty?
Can I register just my gas furnace?
My dealer told me that my system qualifies for the extended limited warranty. Why did Lennox deny it?
I purchased my house in January of 2009. Is the equipment eligible for the program?
After I have registered, do I have to use the installing dealer in order to maintain the manufacturer's warranty?
The new Lennox unit must be properly installed, operated and maintained by a licensed professional installer (or equivalent), or by a service agency in accordance with the unit installation, operation and maintenance instructions provided with each Lennox unit. Failure to provide maintenance per Lennox instructions will void the warranty. You may be asked to provide written documentation of annual and other periodic preventive maintenance.
...Warranty Information :: Lennox Residential
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Old 09-02-2009, 07:41 PM
 
27,903 posts, read 34,347,414 times
Reputation: 4031
Quote:
Please note that routine maintenance is required as recommended in the owner's manual to ensure proper performance of the equipment. Repairs that are required due to lack of routine maintenance are not covered by the Trane Extended Warranty Agreement. Your independent Trane dealer can provide routine maintenance.
Untitled Page

You're dangerous... You should quit before you kill what little credibility you might have...
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Old 09-02-2009, 07:46 PM
 
27,903 posts, read 34,347,414 times
Reputation: 4031
How about this.... since you're a self appointed expert explain to us all the set points and proper operations of perfectly performing system...
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