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Old 09-06-2009, 09:35 AM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,004,073 times
Reputation: 22370

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Here are the facts:

The broadcast will be aired later by CSPAN.

Anyone who wants to watch it can watch it on CSPAN.

Anyone who wants to record it can record it on CSPAN.

By interrupting the day and making this a big Public Relations event for "all school children," Obama and his staffers have made this into a big PR stunt.

If the President (or anyone else in political office) wanted to address children, then they can tape a message and this can be played on VCR's in classrooms all over this nation at any time, and in conjunction with LESSON PLANS in CIVICS that the teachers already have on their calendar.

By making this into a big PR stunt, the President (perhaps unwittingly, perhaps not) has turned the issue of children succeeding in life into the Obama Show, with the subtitle of "follow me - I have the answers - YES YOU CAN!!!!" It is no longer about concern for children and their education. It is all about Obama positioning himself as the "authority" on success. And most importantly, he is reaching out only to ONE GROUP of students - those who are failing. He is essentially saying - I have concern for at risk children, so I will address at risk children and encourage them to stay in school. That is NOT a message for the majority of children who will, indeed, graduate from high school. Had he wanted to work with the US Department of Health and Human Services (a cabinet position) and create a lesson plan for teachers to use . . . then FINE!!! But he did not! It is now about OBAMA , not about the CHILDREN and their future success.

It is totally incorrect to say that every other President has done this. NO PRESIDENT has interrupted the school day NATIONWIDE with a message geared to ONE GROUP of children, followed up with lesson plans. NONE -Democrat or Republican. Stop it with the misleading statements, folks. This is unprecedented.

 
Old 09-06-2009, 09:39 AM
 
332 posts, read 1,309,948 times
Reputation: 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by lumbollo View Post
But the logic behind this statement assumes that nothing done compassionately is newsworthy. Or, if the intent is to do something for compassion, then it becomes invalid as soon as someone who disagrees loudly enough to make it onto the news. (you mentioned the 24 hour news cycle and dumbing down of America, which I agree with)

The fact of the matter is this event shouldn't even be on the news. There are far far far larger items facing this country that need to be addressed, but we never get anywhere close to addressing them. I honestly can't get my arms around the rationalization that it is not OK for the children to listen to the President amongst their peers while in school and authority figures are present. I suspect there is a minority of people who do feel that it is bad for their children and will take whatever action they think is necessary, that is their right, but given the comments here, I think most of the din has more to do with the person delivering the speech. I am reminded that last year this time (or close to it) Joe The Plumber was the example being thrown up as a good fine example from these same quarters.
Ha about Joe the Plumber. I don't like the way the speech has happened and I'm a diehard Dem so the criticisms aren't just coming from the opposition. I think my problem is what you stated... the issues in this country that aren't being addressed.

Of course, those who disagree will just criticize and say, "why can't we aspire to work on multiple efforts at the same time?" I don't really have an answer other than that it's my perception that these things do more to detract from the overall message than add to it...

As for my logic about the cameras, I don't know that logic played a part in it, I wish I could be more logical about it. Ha. It's my opinion... a very emotional opinion based on previous experiences. I do get out-right irrational at times... I just think it's sad that so many different groups speak so many different languages... and in the end, it's just a bunch of people trying to yell the loudest in a tiny little room where no one hears anyone else. Yuck.

I guess I do think the things are news worthy... in fact, a recent example includes the different specials about Sen Kennedy where all of the different individuals he had served/contacted over the years came out of the woodwork to say, hey, this is what he did for me off the record, and I appreciated. I love that stuff. It just seems like the new breed of politician, as opposed to old, (and I interned for both), have very different ways of doing their jobs. I think I'm more old school... not that they were perfect, they were corrupt as hell in some cases... but I think they valued relationships with the constituents more than the news ones I've met b/c they came from a generation when they actually had to shake hands and kiss babies to win an election.
 
Old 09-06-2009, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Burlington County NJ
1,969 posts, read 5,385,967 times
Reputation: 2658
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
Here are the facts:

The broadcast will be aired later by CSPAN.

Anyone who wants to watch it can watch it on CSPAN.

Anyone who wants to record it can record it on CSPAN.

By interrupting the day and making this a big Public Relations event for "all school children," Obama and his staffers have made this into a big PR stunt.

If the President (or anyone else in political office) wanted to address children, then they can tape a message and this can be played on VCR's in classrooms all over this nation at any time, and in conjunction with LESSON PLANS in CIVICS that the teachers already have on their calendar.

By making this into a big PR stunt, the President (perhaps unwittingly, perhaps not) has turned the issue of children succeeding in life into the Obama Show, with the subtitle of "follow me - I have the answers - YES YOU CAN!!!!" It is no longer about concern for children and their education. It is all about Obama positioning himself as the "authority" on success. And most importantly, he is reaching out only to ONE GROUP of students - those who are failing. He is essentially saying - I have concern for at risk children, so I will address at risk children and encourage them to stay in school. That is NOT a message for the majority of children who will, indeed, graduate from high school. Had he wanted to work with the US Department of Health and Human Services (a cabinet position) and create a lesson plan for teachers to use . . . then FINE!!! But he did not! It is now about OBAMA , not about the CHILDREN and their future success.

It is totally incorrect to say that every other President has done this. NO PRESIDENT has interrupted the school day NATIONWIDE with a message geared to ONE GROUP of children, followed up with lesson plans. NONE -Democrat or Republican. Stop it with the misleading statements, folks. This is unprecedented.

Exactly.
 
Old 09-06-2009, 10:14 AM
 
4,010 posts, read 8,923,688 times
Reputation: 1585
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
.....

It is totally incorrect to say that every other President has done this. NO PRESIDENT has interrupted the school day NATIONWIDE with a message geared to ONE GROUP of children, followed up with lesson plans. NONE -Democrat or Republican. Stop it with the misleading statements, folks. This is unprecedented.
The high school graduation rate here in NC for 2008 was 69.9%. This means that almost 1/3 of new adults in this society can't function in the economy. They are competing with individuals in other countries where close to 100% of the population has an education.

Demographically it breaks down as follows:
  • White 75.2%
  • Asian 80.9%
  • Black 62.3%
  • Native American 55.7%
  • Economically Disadvantaged 58.7%
  • Students with Disabilities 56.2%
It would seem to me the status quo isn't working so some unprecedented action is needed. If what Obama is doing is unprecedented, then I have to commend him for at least trying. I certainly don't hear any ideas coming from anyone on what should be done instead.
 
Old 09-06-2009, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Burlington County NJ
1,969 posts, read 5,385,967 times
Reputation: 2658
Quote:
Originally Posted by lumbollo View Post
The high school graduation rate here in NC for 2008 was 69.9%. This means that almost 1/3 of new adults in this society can't function in the economy. They are competing with individuals in other countries where close to 100% of the population has an education.

Demographically it breaks down as follows:
  • White 75.2%
  • Asian 80.9%
  • Black 62.3%
  • Native American 55.7%
  • Economically Disadvantaged 58.7%
  • Students with Disabilities 56.2%
It would seem to me the status quo isn't working so some unprecedented action is needed. If what Obama is doing is unprecedented, then I have to commend him for at least trying. I certainly don't hear any ideas coming from anyone on what should be done instead.
This doesn't change that the speech he was/is going to give has been changed several times and that the content is not trustworthy. Originally, he wanted our kids opinion on health care! Why? And what does he care what my 7 year old thinks of it? My 7 year old cares about Spongebob and Legos. My 16 year old who can obviously grasp this concept a little more just wants all the homeless people to be fed and world peace. That's the essay she'll write. And probably most of the other teenagers. Then when the parents began saying they were not sending their kids to school to see it, suddently the agenda changes to "he's going to encourage them to study and stay in school." Sorry - I don't buy it. Something is wrong with this picture. If his plan is to start bending the minds of the next generation of voters then believe me, my children will have their parents involved. If its not, then there was no harm done by me watching it with them .....now is there?

While there was a part of the original speech that was going to encourage the kids to do well in school -it was NOT his original intention.
 
Old 09-06-2009, 10:43 AM
 
3,151 posts, read 3,130,229 times
Reputation: 1075
Keep it out of the classrooms..and on TV where people have free choice to either watch it..or flip the channel..not in the classroom where it is a captured audience...
 
Old 09-06-2009, 10:47 AM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,004,073 times
Reputation: 22370
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdavid002 View Post
Keep it out of the classrooms..and on TV where people have free choice to either watch it..or flip the channel..not in the classroom where it is a captured audience...
And if teachers and administrators want to plan a lesson around it and show the taped video in their classrooms - then they can figure out how to do that in an appropriate venue - be it in conjunction with a civics lesson or as a special convocation, where attendance is not compulsory.
 
Old 09-06-2009, 11:07 AM
 
2,603 posts, read 4,269,446 times
Reputation: 1954
I was routinely browbeat by "conservative" teachers in public schools in N.C. in the early 90s for supporting Clinton...Furthermore, Bush's address in 91 was blatantly political (right on the eve of a re-election campaign). This pales in comparison.

Obama has HUGE popularity in the black community. Many of these kids are the ones at risk. Perhaps a personal call to help their parents' and communities' hero by staying in school will be somehow effective.

What exactly is wrong with kids wanting to help the president? THe office of the President is bigger than any one person. If you don't like the man, respect the office. I thought you "god-fearing" cons all respected authority?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lumbollo View Post
To put it into perspective, when I was this age the schools in the Carolinas were still segregated and there would be NO Black people in the school at all. Any discussion, of the President LBJ would be strictly forbidden. By the late 1960s he was universally hated by most of the White population in the South and the idea that he might come and speak to the kids would be unacceptable. The hero was George Wallace. (go look that one up if you are not familiar) This was followed by Nixon and Watergate so my impression of President in those days as a kid was not good. I would have enjoyed hearing from ANY President. The point that as an adult, and I look back at these events, I was not influenced by them no matter how much my parents, society, the government, etc etc tried to maintain a status quo.
 
Old 09-06-2009, 11:40 AM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,004,073 times
Reputation: 22370
Quote:
Originally Posted by coped View Post
I was routinely browbeat by "conservative" teachers in public schools in N.C. in the early 90s for supporting Clinton...Furthermore, Bush's address in 91 was blatantly political (right on the eve of a re-election campaign). This pales in comparison.

Obama has HUGE popularity in the black community. Many of these kids are the ones at risk. Perhaps a personal call to help their parents' and communities' hero by staying in school will be somehow effective.

What exactly is wrong with kids wanting to help the president? THe office of the President is bigger than any one person. If you don't like the man, respect the office. I thought you "god-fearing" cons all respected authority?
What does any of this have to do with piping a broadcast into classrooms simultaneously across the nation?

I think everyone agrees that there is nothing wrong with the President going to schools individually . . . nor is there anything wrong with the President recording a message for teachers to use in conjunction with a Civics lesson.

The President playing Tony Robbins to one group of kids exclusively - while the rest sit there - is a whole different ball of wax.

I would say it makes it very clear that the President is not concerned about helping successful kids excel . . . he is only concerned with those who are failing. He is doing exactly what he said he would do - "help level the playing field" for those who are NOT successful. That seems pretty divisive to me. Where is the initiative and concern to create more challenging programs so our kids can compete internationally? He is only addressing the drop out rate - get more kids through high school. How about challenging programs for the kids who are not lagging behind and failing? We spend more $$$ on at risk children than we do the ones who excel! Now, where is the EQUITY in that?

I respect the office of President. And every President has a cabinet post that handles Education. Let that person do his/her job while the President does his.
 
Old 09-06-2009, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
422 posts, read 1,214,385 times
Reputation: 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by SunnyKayak View Post
simmer down
Simmer down? How is this thread still under Charlotte, NC? Shouldn't this be under politics? You guys are so quick to move other threads...

If I wanted to debate and read about Politics, I would go to the Political Forum...
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