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Old 09-25-2009, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Near the water
8,231 posts, read 11,587,975 times
Reputation: 3877

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderer - Not Lost View Post
I am not assuming, only hoping. Every kid deserves parents that care enough to make them do what's right.


You are right, they do deserve two parents but you can't make them do anything. They must be taught and guided. That is when they learn.
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Old 09-25-2009, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Up above the world so high!
45,270 posts, read 88,364,319 times
Reputation: 39851
Quote:
Originally Posted by barndog View Post
i am sure i am going to be in the minority on this one, but i see some shades of gray on this one, and i'm leaning toward the side that this kid didn't do anything illegal... tacky, yeah. illegal, no.

consider this: if he knew passerbys (party a) threw money into that fountain, then he also knew the owners of that property (party b) weren't the "owners" of the money. (there is no sign indicating that the fountain is a receptacle for a charity.) so, technically, he wasn't stealing from party b, and he wasn't stealing from party a either.

party a is throwing their money away... they're not giving it to party b. so i clearly see the attorney's argument that the money has been abandoned.

also, if i drop change in a public parking lot when i'm walking, does the owner of that property then become the owner of the change i've dropped? would the person after me be guilty of theft from the property owner if they picked up my quarters later that afternoon?

the question is this kid's intent: did he think he was stealing? did he have a clear plan or sudden, uncontrollable impulse to take someone else's hard-earned money?

without further details, it sounds like the answer is no.

it sounds like he saw a source of cash that didn't look like it belonged to anyone, people literally throwing their money away, and he was resourceful enough to go after it.

maybe a better idea than throwing him in the pokey is re-directing that mind of his to something more helpful to society.

just a couple of different thoughts on the subject...
The people throwing their money into the fountain were not "throwing it away". They were donating it to a worthy cause, usually for the fun of making a wish He had to realize the fountain belonged to SOMEONE?? I'm baffled why anyone would not realize taking this money would be stealing from someone, especially a 17 year old.
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Old 09-25-2009, 02:16 PM
 
4,222 posts, read 6,713,872 times
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Maybe they should stock fountains with paranas?
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Old 09-25-2009, 03:14 PM
 
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loves -- nowhere in that article did it say that it was posted on the fountain that the fountain itself was a receptacle for charity... nor did it say that information was posted anywhere else on the property. and if you look at the picture included with the article, no sign exists to this effect.

if he watched individuals throw coins into the fountain, he had no reason to believe they would come back to retrieve them. if there is no sign designating that the coins will be collected for a specific purpose, he has no reason to believe that anyone else will come to collect.

hence, abandoned property.

still get that argument.

still stand by mine.
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Old 09-25-2009, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Near the water
8,231 posts, read 11,587,975 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barndog View Post
loves -- nowhere in that article did it say that it was posted on the fountain that the fountain itself was a receptacle for charity... nor did it say that information was posted anywhere else on the property. and if you look at the picture included with the article, no sign exists to this effect.

if he watched individuals throw coins into the fountain, he had no reason to believe they would come back to retrieve them. if there is no sign designating that the coins will be collected for a specific purpose, he has no reason to believe that anyone else will come to collect.

hence, abandoned property.

still get that argument.

still stand by mine.

abandoned property??? this was at a shopping center.
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Old 09-25-2009, 04:19 PM
 
4,010 posts, read 8,929,345 times
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We have too many police with not enough to do. The teen did wrong but they could have just told him that he was stealing, put the money back and then beat it. Next time they will arrest him. Where has the common sense gone in these things?
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Old 09-25-2009, 04:25 PM
 
795 posts, read 3,916,171 times
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chrome -- if you stand beside a fountain and throw a quarter in and make a wish, what are you thinking about that coin?

are you thinking it's going to stay there forever? are you thinking it's going to be eventually cleaned out by the property owners?

if no sign is present stating that the coins are being donated to charity, what are you thinking about that coin when you throw it in? what is your intention for that quarter as to its final destination?

you have just stood there and literally thrown your money away without having any idea where it would end up. so you can't complain if someone else fishes it out.

you abandoned it. hence, abandoned property.

now, if there were a sign detailing what was intended for the coin's eventual use, that would entail transfer of property, the property owners would be the new owner of the coin, and theft would have taken place.

or, if the property owners had seeded the fountain with their own money to encourage donations, that would entail theft.

but as this article is written, neither of those things happened.

so, i still say i understand the abandoned property theory.

and i still say this kid would be better directed to other pursuits not toward time in jail.
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Old 09-25-2009, 04:31 PM
 
6,196 posts, read 14,212,531 times
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Fry 'im.
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Old 09-25-2009, 05:28 PM
 
Location: Near the water
8,231 posts, read 11,587,975 times
Reputation: 3877
Quote:
Originally Posted by barndog View Post
chrome -- if you stand beside a fountain and throw a quarter in and make a wish, what are you thinking about that coin?

are you thinking it's going to stay there forever? are you thinking it's going to be eventually cleaned out by the property owners?

if no sign is present stating that the coins are being donated to charity, what are you thinking about that coin when you throw it in? what is your intention for that quarter as to its final destination?

you have just stood there and literally thrown your money away without having any idea where it would end up. so you can't complain if someone else fishes it out.

you abandoned it. hence, abandoned property.

now, if there were a sign detailing what was intended for the coin's eventual use, that would entail transfer of property, the property owners would be the new owner of the coin, and theft would have taken place.

or, if the property owners had seeded the fountain with their own money to encourage donations, that would entail theft.

but as this article is written, neither of those things happened.

so, i still say i understand the abandoned property theory.

and i still say this kid would be better directed to other pursuits not toward time in jail.

When I was a little girl, I can remember going to South Park Mall and with my Papa tossing coinS in the fountain. Of course, it was always with the thoughts of making a wish but more importantly, we knew as did most that when the money was collected it was given to a charity via the mall. That is what I think about.

If one was to go with your premise then I could have a birdbath on MY property that has a coin or three in it and because I haven't placed a sign on it *do not touch*, anyone can walk up and remove those coins. No they can not, that birdbath just as this fountain WAS/IS on private property.
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Old 09-25-2009, 05:38 PM
 
795 posts, read 3,916,171 times
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chrome -- don't think so. your house is private property. the shopping center could be either private property deemed for use by the public, or it could be the business area of a municipality. i'm no legal scholar, but even i see the difference there.
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