Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
^^^^^^^Correct! Not difficult to understand by some but a very complex thought for others.
PINK - I think that folks here just can't adjust to the fact that the Glory Days of Banking in Charlotte are in the past . . . and we gotta hitch our wagon to some other stars out there . . . beginning with convincing other corporations to move here . . . while simultaneously creating a climate favorable to small business growth and establishment.
Charlotte's "reputation" has been schizoid for quite a while now . . . and folks don't want to face the fact that the designation of this city as "the second largest banking center in the USA" was mere happenstance.
This city would have been better off if those bank mergers that made BofA a giant and propelled Wachovia into national status had never occurred. The banking industry here had been homegrown - until Boards of Directors and CEOs decided to go mega w/ acquisitions and mergers and came in and plucked up these fat (well managed) assets. And once they became Mega institutions . . . it created a bubble here, including in housing. Now we have literally thousands of jobs gone and thousands of people who can't seem to accept it is time to move on.
When folks realize they can't find jobs here and the UE compensation checks run out . . . we are gonna have a migration out of this city just like we had inmigration . . . and there will be a lot of real estate just sitting here, with no taxes being paid on them . . .
Let's see . . . unemployment at even 10% in a city of 700,000 . . . 70,000 folks without jobs. Hmmm. Seems like a problem to me. And I can trace how it happened straight back to mega banks and the attendant businesses and employees who moved here to service those entities.
And let's don't forget the wealth that was wiped out when stocks fell - local residents who lost literally millions - b/c they had banked on banking.
EXACTLY!!! I'm an advocate for bringing in industries based upon science and technology, like the Raleigh/Durham research triangle, as well as other industries. Not only do they seem more economically stable, I believe they would earn the city intellectual respect.
Totally agree. We have the workforce - we either need to find a way to get them back to work or these folks are gonna have no choice but move on to other cities/opportunities.
Corporations would do well to take a hard look at what Charlotte can offer in the way of talented workforce as well as inexpensive housing and commercial space . . . and move their operations here. It would be a win-win situation, for everyone concerned.
Exactly!!!!! Being that Charlotte is one of the most affordable midsized/large cities in the Nation, I am quite sure that won't be a problem.
However, I feel that Charlotte's REAL problem will be office space Uptown. The banks are gonna keep much of their employees in Charlotte (as CarolinaBlue pointed out, Charlotte is cheaper to do business in). Eventhough Charlotte won't be the HQ for major banks in the future, there will still be a major banking work force uptown. It is kinda like Nascar and US Air. Both of these companies are not headquartered in Charlotte, but they both have a MAJOR presence here.
If I am correct about the banks keeping a large "cheaper" employment base in Charlotte; how are we gonna get new jobs into towers that are not vacant? Again, I think this is Charlotte's real problem.
Corps don't have to be located in the heart of uptown Charlotte. A good example of this would be to take a look at Overland Park, Kansas - a suburb of Kansas City, MO, and how that region developed with corporate space.
Locating corporations outside the center of the city can be advantageous on many levels. Build up the 485 corridor . . .
If the major selling point for Charlotte is that it is "cheaper" to do business here, then it is an illogical argument they should be housed in gleaming skyscrapers in downtown. That is the most expensive office space in the city and beyond the finance industry, most other industries moved away from building this kind of space in the 1960s.
The office worker of the future is going to virtual offices and work from home. Many of the forward thinking companies are making vast moves in this arena now so it's not clear to me that Charlotte should be focusing on getting corporations to some how locate into the center city. Clearly this isn't where the employment situation of the 21 century is heading.
----------------
In regards to the banks....
Finally, despite what the bank leaders have been saying (remember their words don't match reality anymore), I think there is going to continue to be a gutting of bank employees in Charlotte. The question isn't based on cost, but rather redundancy. Wachovia employees are competing against redundant jobs in Minneapolis which Charlotte does not have any cost advantages over. BofA is a broken company in terms of owing the government more than it can ever hope to pay back, and for that matter Wells is a big ward of the federal government too. Finally both companies have become experts at putting work in India. I agree they have a lot of cost cutting to do, but cost cutting means getting rid of jobs.
You gave the population for the entire combined statistical area which really isn't relevant to the point being referenced. The NY Metro division, which is the city and the surrounding suburban counties is about 11.5M. As noted above, this population would be falling if it wasn't for foreign immigration...
Exactly. New York's growth has been from foreign born folks moving to the US. Most imporantly is the type of folks who are "leaving" New York. Its the middle class. The New York metro area has seen a mass exodus of its middle class within the past few years.
But again, as I said before, people here should probably get used to the notion of BofA moving their headquarters becuase it probably will happen. But they're not going to move signficant numbers of jobs, and that's whats most important.
If the major selling point for Charlotte is that it is "cheaper" to do business here, then it is an illogical argument they should be housed in gleaming skyscrapers in downtown. That is the most expensive office space in the city and beyond the finance industry, most other industries moved away from building this kind of space in the 1960s.
The office worker of the future is going to virtual offices and work from home. Many of the forward thinking companies are making vast moves in this arena now so it's not clear to me that Charlotte should be focusing on getting corporations to some how locate into the center city. Clearly this isn't where the employment situation of the 21 century is heading.
----------------
In regards to the banks....
Finally, despite what the bank leaders have been saying (remember their words don't match reality anymore), I think there is going to continue to be a gutting of bank employees in Charlotte. The question isn't based on cost, but rather redundancy. Wachovia employees are competing against redundant jobs in Minneapolis which Charlotte does not have any cost advantages over. BofA is a broken company in terms of owing the government more than it can ever hope to pay back, and for that matter Wells is a big ward of the federal government too. Finally both companies have become experts at putting work in India. I agree they have a lot of cost cutting to do, but cost cutting means getting rid of jobs.
This isn't true at all. BofA actually does have the money to pay back the government. They're waiting to get the OK to do so. Its really just the folks in Washington screwing with them since the CEO "snitched" on them.
Both of these above arguments (#23 and #24) will only lead to the suburban sprawl (think Atlanta) that most Charlotteans don't want. That is why I asked the question about space uptown. Also, there are quite a few major businesses that want urban "Uptown like" real estate (think GMAC finance, UNCC's new building, NASCAR Office tower), but don't wish to pay NYC or San Fran prices for it. These are the companies I fear Charlotte won't have the space for.
Heck, even in Ballantyne and Southpark, there isn't much over 1 million sq/ft available in those markets (so I've been told). If what I've heard is correct, then how are we gonna create available space for a major operation that needs nearly 500,000 sq/ft or better?
In this current economy, developers are having a tough time getting construction loans. Which means it is MUCH more difficult to get office space (or any space for that matter) built. Again, I think THIS is Charlotte's real problem.
And to the comment about more and more jobs going to "virtual offices" LOL; you seem to have a flawed perception of reality Lumbollo (which is sad because I know you are at least 15 years my senior).
For every person making a dollar, there is probably 10 people making 10 cents. Those "10 cent" earners probably work for a major corporation that is much larger than the "dollar earners" (think Wal-Mart vs. BofA). If a company like BofA grows and goes virtual, then that means a company like Wal-Mart will grow too (and can not go virtual).
My point is the non-virtual jobs will always outnumber the virtual ones by a large margin. It is not wise to assume that most jobs are going virtual because to do so would be laughable. First of all, most jobs can't. Secondly, the few that can like the "security" and "assets" that comes with having a building.
Last edited by urbancharlotte; 10-01-2009 at 07:37 AM..
However, we already have suburban sprawl and I personally do NOT see building on it as a negative. Entities do not have to be located in the city core or in Ballantyne and/or SouthPark exclusively. Whole campuses can be built along the 485 corridor. These campuses make it very convenient for folks living in the burbs to commute to work - and would offer new opportunities for CATS to expand service into those areas, like other metros around the country.
I know you want to see a very dense city core but I don't think it is necessary to Charlotte's growth nor do I see it as damaging to the burbs or to traffic patterns, as long as 485 is expanded. Look at all the opportunities for land management/development in the West and Southwest sectors off 485, for example.
However, we already have suburban sprawl and I personally do NOT see building on it as a negative. Entities do not have to be located in the city core or in Ballantyne and/or SouthPark exclusively. Whole campuses can be built along the 485 corridor. These campuses make it very convenient for folks living in the burbs to commute to work - and would offer new opportunities for CATS to expand service into those areas, like other metros around the country.
I know you want to see a very dense city core but I don't think it is necessary to Charlotte's growth nor do I see it as damaging to the burbs or to traffic patterns, as long as 485 is expanded. Look at all the opportunities for land management/development in the West and Southwest sectors off 485, for example.
Yes, suburbia does have a very bright future in Charlotte lol. I've always thought metro Charlotte's next 1 1/2 million newcomers will move to Union, Cabarrus, York, Gaston, and Iredell (not Mecklenburg). Charlotte is a very rare breed when it comes to cities. Charlotte goes from urban (central Charlotte), to suburban (everything past Dilworth), to rural in just a few minutes of driving. There is not a single metro of nearly 2 million quite like Charlotte when it comes to the "urban drop-off" effect. New Orleans and Richmond both have quick urban drop-offs, but Charlotte's CSA is nearly the size of these two aforementioned metros combined.
At any rate, Charlotte will see a lot of suburban growth in the future. However, I am still bothered by the fact that uptown maybe reaching its peak. Are we gonna build a "second uptown" like Atlanta's Buckhead or Midtown. If we don't, Charlotte WILL NOT be a very desirable nor sustainable city in the future.
It's about time...b/c of him, B of A had to be bailed out...under Hugh McColl, I doubt they would have bought Countrywide or Merryl Lynch, especially knowing their problems....or if anything, he would have bought ML for 10% of what Ken Lewis paid for it...
Yes Hugh was the Miracle worker and would have saved the financial industry. Get real. BofA was actually ok until ML and even then are going to benefit. The whole country/world was in a recession. ALL BANKS took TARP money, companies not even Banks, like Amex and Goldman, filed to be banks just to get that money. The gov't and the "people" made money on those loans. It's because of him Charlotte grew. Why do people only look at the last year when everything was under financial stress. Anyone remember 2001-2007? Yes, it's what have you done for me lately.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohioaninsc
Hopefully, no golden parachutes for him on the way out...
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEmissary
Which means in "BofA parlance" not a cent over $10,000,000! And that's that! "Hey... you unemployed contract workers! Get out of the way! Kenny's limo is just about to pull up"!
If it makes you feel better. "Technically he gets no golden parachute. He has no employment contract with the bank. And, even more unusual, in 2002 Bank of America froze the "supplemental" pension that Lewis and other bigwigs get. Lewis will still have an executive pension, but he hasn't accrued seniority benefits in it since then. The present pension policy at Bank of America is to have execs get more or less the same pension as everybody else" Now he still makes good money and some perks, but he isn't benefiting financially walking away.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
