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Old 10-01-2009, 10:12 AM
 
Location: Autumn Cove, Lake Wylie, SC
393 posts, read 1,187,422 times
Reputation: 285

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mullman View Post
Honda, Toyota, Mercedes, BMW, and a few others build cars in the US and none of those required a bailout.
GM was struggling a few years ago in the 'good times'...
Reason....UAW.
Enjoy unemployment union folks.
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Old 10-01-2009, 11:04 AM
 
4,010 posts, read 10,206,729 times
Reputation: 1600
Quote:
Originally Posted by uber_bwnage View Post
Reason....UAW.
Enjoy unemployment union folks.
Yet all these companies have very strong unions offering great benefits in their home countries. Why should we have to have 3rd world wages in the USA?
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Old 10-01-2009, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
2,193 posts, read 5,052,845 times
Reputation: 1075
Quote:
Originally Posted by lumbollo View Post
Yet all these companies have very strong unions offering great benefits in their home countries. Why should we have to have 3rd world wages in the USA?
That's arrogant to say no? If these companies can't compete then why should they get paid so highly?
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Old 10-01-2009, 01:26 PM
 
Location: CLT native
4,280 posts, read 11,310,410 times
Reputation: 2301
Quote:
Originally Posted by lumbollo View Post
Yet all these companies have very strong unions offering great benefits in their home countries. Why should we have to have 3rd world wages in the USA?
3rd world wages?!
I've met people who work BMW in Greer and what you are insinuating is 100% false...

Please try again.
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Old 10-01-2009, 04:54 PM
 
4,010 posts, read 10,206,729 times
Reputation: 1600
^Not if you take what I posted in context, but obviously you didn't do this.
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Old 10-01-2009, 05:03 PM
 
Location: CLT native
4,280 posts, read 11,310,410 times
Reputation: 2301
Quote:
Originally Posted by lumbollo View Post
^Not if you take what I posted in context, but obviously you didn't do this.
Sorry if I fail to understand your post..

The modern US factories (Mercedes, BMW, Toyota, BMW, Honda, and others) do not have to support people who came to work for them after high school at 18 years old and worked 25 years and then retired with pension and insurance (at 43).
The grand old UAW, back in the day when people did not live past 55-65.

These workers are now RETIRED @ 35-45-50+ years, many times MUCH MORE than they actually worked.
How in the world does this make business sense when people live 80-90 yrs+ on perpetual drug subscriptions?

Pls explain?
How can any company pay a pension and insurance for people who worked 1x and live 2-2.5x beyond their work history??

Are you using the 'new math'??

If you think you can make this happen (without a GovCo bailout) in any industry with our current miracle drugs, then I would love to see your business plan.

The only recent friend I heard retiring with 25 years of service (pension & insurance) was from a government job - go figure...
He's 45 and could easily live 45 more years.
Seriously, how does this make any business sense?

Last edited by mullman; 10-01-2009 at 05:26 PM..
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Old 10-01-2009, 08:05 PM
 
Location: Wouldn't you like to know?
9,116 posts, read 17,718,482 times
Reputation: 3722
Legacy costs are part of a bad business model unfortunately....
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Old 10-02-2009, 08:35 AM
 
777 posts, read 2,567,022 times
Reputation: 491
Quote:
Originally Posted by lumbollo View Post
Yet all these companies have very strong unions offering great benefits in their home countries. Why should we have to have 3rd world wages in the USA?
If you can explain how blue collar workers average $39/hr plus benefits to watch a machine do the work, let me know.
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Old 10-02-2009, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Autumn Cove, Lake Wylie, SC
393 posts, read 1,187,422 times
Reputation: 285
The point is...
If GM was allowed to run its business, in the best interest of the business and not the best interest of the union, it would never have needed a bailout and would not be on the verge of failure.

The UAW ran GM into the ground. $40/hr wages for $10/hr work, Cadillac healthcare plans, big pension plans, etc...all because of union greed. Just look at the steel industry. The only purpose of bailouts and government intervention is to keep those voting union members happy. Bad move from a business perspective,great move from a political perspective. Go figure.

GM will fail. Its only a matter of time. Uncle Sam can't stop the bleeding forever, and when GM finally dies, it will be a perfect example of "how capitalism failed". Bizarro world is the new reality.

So thank you union folks...enjoy your new careers at McDonald's.
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Old 10-02-2009, 09:30 AM
 
Location: SE Florida
1,194 posts, read 4,125,728 times
Reputation: 758
I owned a loaded Saturn Vue until 6 weeks ago. When I was informed that Saturn is being picked up by the Penske Group would probably fail that bit of news solidified my goal of selling the Saturn. I now sold my Saturn and have a Toyota. I did love the Saturn SUV but too many things went wrong with the vehicle and I was at the dealer more than 9 times within the last year. I did think Saturn VUE styling was very good and their VUE engines mimicked the Caddy but that is where it stops.

GM constatly screws up and still holds the key to a successful business. I do not know why GM didn't partition their "OnStar" to others....

The Unions did help GM acquire a mass of debt including their layoff benefits....When a GM employee is laid off they receive 90% of their working hourly wage...WHAT! Also, why did the union leaders require a golf course that takes over $1 million just to keep it open?

GM is a good example of why America jobs are driven overseas. I firmly believe if our appointed representatives fund the loosing banks, auto industry or provide for untra high end facilities to themselves, their time will arrive when we just say "NO".

I believe we Americans suffer through the hands of our appointed reporesentatives who tell us they are gonna work in our favor. We should not vote them in ever again to do a "MANS" job while most use a "JUVENILE" or "CRIMINAL" mindset to carry out what or who gives them personally the most....

Liars, cheats and thieves belong in the City of Oz. Am I angry? Nah. I am livid.....
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