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Old 10-10-2009, 09:11 PM
 
9,848 posts, read 30,187,543 times
Reputation: 10516

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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancharlotte View Post
This video above shows EXACTLY why the CIAA tournament left Raleigh for Charlotte. Charlotte is where its at!!!

Urby,

I'm a little dissapointed that you don't understand the CIAA tournament city selection process. Cities bid on the tournament. The host city needs to guarantee a certain amount of Scholarship money ranging from. The bidding cities can get corporated sponsors but they need to guarantee the money. Taxpayer money is used to lure the tournemant from one city to another. The CIAA doesn't "leave" a city out of dissatisfaction. They simply go to the location that provides the best finacial bid. Lots of taxpayer money went into luring it to Charlotte. Perhaps that was a good investment for your city. I don't know. Just wanted to clear that up for you.

"City tourism officials lured the CIAA for the economic boost of visitor spending, now estimated at $12 million, the same
as Raleigh in 2005. But will taxpayers get their money's worth?"

"Charlotte and Mecklenburg County are each putting $200,000 into the Central Intercollegiate Athletic Association's
scholarship fund, and the state will contribute another $500,000."


Source:
http://www2.nccommerce.com/eclipsfiles/13468.pdf


FWIW, I agree with you that NASCAR in Charlotte is a good thing for the city. I don't think a NASCAR presence in Raleigh would make sense being that Raleigh is 2 hours south of Richmond (which has Nascar) and 2.5 hours Northeast of Charlotte which also has Nascar. I think having it in all three locations so close together would be bad for Nascar. It makes more sense to spread it out from Richmond to Charlotte.
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Old 10-10-2009, 09:34 PM
 
Location: Crown Town
2,742 posts, read 6,717,834 times
Reputation: 1680
Quote:
Originally Posted by North_Raleigh_Guy View Post
Urby,

I'm a little dissapointed that you don't understand the CIAA tournament city selection process. Cities bid on the tournament. The host city needs to guarantee a certain amount of Scholarship money ranging from. The bidding cities can get corporated sponsors but they need to guarantee the money. Taxpayer money is used to lure the tournemant from one city to another. The CIAA doesn't "leave" a city out of dissatisfaction. They simply go to the location that provides the best finacial bid. Lots of taxpayer money went into luring it to Charlotte. Perhaps that was a good investment for your city. I don't know. Just wanted to clear that up for you.

"City tourism officials lured the CIAA for the economic boost of visitor spending, now estimated at $12 million, the same
as Raleigh in 2005. But will taxpayers get their money's worth?"

"Charlotte and Mecklenburg County are each putting $200,000 into the Central Intercollegiate Athletic Association's
scholarship fund, and the state will contribute another $500,000."


Source:
http://www2.nccommerce.com/eclipsfiles/13468.pdf
For the record, Raleigh and Charlotte had almost identical financial bids. The decision to come to Charlotte was based primarily on the collective notion among the board members that Charlotte was a more "exciting" location. Here's one article about the move...

"...Both bids had annual cash values of more than $1 million, Kerry said, and both guaranteed at least $1 million in scholarship money annually..."

Article: http://www.newsobserver.com/news/loc...ory/94641.html

Last edited by Carolina Blue; 10-10-2009 at 09:46 PM..
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Old 10-10-2009, 10:43 PM
 
9,848 posts, read 30,187,543 times
Reputation: 10516
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolina Blue View Post
For the record, Raleigh and Charlotte had almost identical financial bids. The decision to come to Charlotte was based primarily on the collective notion among the board members that Charlotte was a more "exciting" location. Here's one article about the move...

"...Both bids had annual cash values of more than $1 million, Kerry said, and both guaranteed at least $1 million in scholarship money annually..."

Article: CIAA tourney moves to Charlotte - Local/State - News & Observer
The article you article you point to does talk of Charlottes nice downtown, but it also highlights geography being a key factor. I'm glad you find geography so exciting. Once again, there is more to the story than some seem able or willing to admit.

"Raleigh also ponied up a comparable pile of scholarship money, but Charlotte had something else: geography. The conference is looking to attract new member schools in South Carolina and Georgia."

Is it just me or do you too find it ironic that Charlotte fought so hard for this tournament while at the same time championing a public school policy that promotes segregation? Interesting.

Last edited by North_Raleigh_Guy; 10-10-2009 at 10:52 PM..
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Old 10-10-2009, 11:25 PM
 
Location: Pixley
3,519 posts, read 2,802,865 times
Reputation: 1863
Quote:
Originally Posted by North_Raleigh_Guy View Post
The article you article you point to does talk of Charlottes nice downtown, but it also highlights geography being a key factor. I'm glad you find geography so exciting. Once again, there is more to the story than some seem able or willing to admit.

"Raleigh also ponied up a comparable pile of scholarship money, but Charlotte had something else: geography. The conference is looking to attract new member schools in South Carolina and Georgia."

Is it just me or do you too find it ironic that Charlotte fought so hard for this tournament while at the same time championing a public school policy that promotes segregation? Interesting.
Sorry, had to jump in here. The way I read the article, geography was "something else", meaning in addition to what Charlotte had to offer. If it was the deciding factor, it would have been the lead in the story and would have been mentioned in the article before this section:

"But when the bidding opened for the right to host the 2006, 2007 and 2008 tournaments, the Queen City offered its glistening new downtown arena, which will open next year. Charlotte also boasted a slew of restaurants, hotels, nightlife and other things to do within walking distance, marketing the area as a "CIAA Village."

That bid -- plus $1 million in scholarship money guaranteed to be divided among the league's 12 schools every year -- won the day."

It seems that the CIAA wanted to have the event in a place with more a "city feeling" location.

Instead, the lead in the article was lamenting the lost of "Raleigh's signature sports event" and that, "Now, Raleigh's most prominent and well-attended sports events, with the National Hockey League's Carolina Hurricanes idled by a labor dispute, will be the Atlantic Coast Conference football and basketball games."

Additionally, while you may not care that much, it seems that others in Raleigh are taking it harder, "It is a big hit to lose the CIAA. We've lost the largest as far as economic impact, visibility and media coverage," said Scott Dupree, sports marketing director of the Greater Raleigh Convention and Visitors Bureau. "We need to go out and find another signature sporting event for this market, and we'll start working on that right away." It seems that Scotty is willing to admit it was a big blow to the area. So while geography played a role in the decision, many more factors were "key". It seems that you are reading more into the geography angle than others who are more familiar with the situation.

I’d like to know if others who have read the article came away with the same opinion of it that I did.
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Old 10-11-2009, 01:00 AM
 
Location: Morgantown, WV and Charlotte, NC
99 posts, read 291,062 times
Reputation: 101
You guys are hilarious. You think by belittling someone's intelligence you are proving that you are correct.

VINDALOO: If you are going to live below the Mason-Dixon line then please exercise some Southern civility and keep the disparaging remarks to yourself. There is no need to question my age or intelligence due to my variance in opinion from the flock because contrary to popular opinion wisdom does not always correspond with your age/experiences. Here is a good Southern analogy for you: I am sure that you probably read the Bible, but in case you don't there is a verse that says: "And a child shall lead them... (True story!)"

Almost all the stats and computations you are pulling are from early 2000s or right when the recession was affecting other areas of the United States but not Charlotte yet. This thread is about attracting America's most talented young professionals right? "NASCAR brings in MANY people from places like *gasp!* WEST VIRGINIA." Do you really think that a state ranked second worst in the nation for primary public education is producing a plethora of brilliant, young talented professionals? Half of incoming freshman at the flagship university,WVU, don't even graduate from undergraduate studies.

Let's not be foolish and say that Raleigh is a perfect city because obviously it has problems; however, at this present moment in time Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill is moving forward at a much more rapid pace than Charlotte towards being a progressive area/city/cities that will attract talented, young professionals who will likely stay in the area largely because their universities will always fuel the economy in ways that UNCC, Queens, Kings College, JCSU, and the overpriced Charlotte School of Law could only dream. Yes, other cities have NASCAR as well. NASCAR experiences are also very different depending on where they are held in the nation. Some race events are considered backyard BBQ events in some areas while others view them as wine and cheese affairs (think West Coast -Jeff Gordon country). If you are telling me that the congregation forming along University Blvd and Concord Mall every race day comprises or attracts a huge section of Charotte's most talented young professionals then I say we have some real problems to worry about besides the economy and healthcare reform.

Also, wasn't the last census taken in April 2000? When is this information actually available to the public for inspection? SIXTY YEARS FROM NOW AT LEAST! Statistics are great and everything, but much like the two articles (the one lumbollo cited being very accurate in the conclusions drawn while Servatius' article was more than likely generated to fuel these types of disputes) you guys are discounting, they can be altered or skewed as well. I would love to see a study conducted concerning the amount of young people who have PhD-level college educations and where they are moving, because I can promise you that the influx of the "most talented, young professionals" are not flocking to Charlotte in droves simply because there are not that many career opportunities in Charlotte for young people who are at the top of the foodchain and the city itself is rather sterile (debatable I know) in terms of real urban city life. If people in Charlotte have gripes about a Northerner, Westerner, Easterner(made that one up, lol) taking "their jobs" in Charlotte imagine how protective they are when it comes to real-executive jobs being given to "14 year olds. (LOL!)" The very fact that you had to attack my opinion (because that is what these all are) on the basis of age says so much about the very attitude of a city like Charlotte when it comes to attracting the "most talented" compared to a New York, Chicago, Dallas, San Francisco, Atlanta, etc... Nevertheless, I am sure you all know a couple of people who are exceptions to the rule (we all do), but as someone who is actually looking at the entire nation and where to move after graduation along with my friends in law, medical, and business school the most talented, young professionals are not flocking to Charlotte. They are going to K street, Chicago, NY(Northeast), CA, and TX. I'm going to stop now because although I disagree with your beliefs that Charlotte (right now!) is still somehow on the rise and grabbng up the most talented young professionals in America I will vigourously defend your right to say it! Lol...

Signed, A true Charlotte native, not a transplant.

Last edited by 1WVULAWGRAD; 10-11-2009 at 01:32 AM..
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Old 10-11-2009, 04:18 AM
 
7,051 posts, read 12,262,818 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redd Jedd View Post
I’d like to know if others who have read the article came away with the same opinion of it that I did.
I did!!!

I'll also add that WRAL in Raleigh did a report on how the new Convention Center (and Fayetteville Street) may help downtown Raleigh rival uptown Charlotte for the next CIAA bidding. Clearly, the consensus in Raleigh is that Charlotte's Uptown was a "better" and "more exciting" place for the tournament.

Mayor: Raleigh to Make Another Play to Host CIAA Tournament :: WRAL.com
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Old 10-11-2009, 06:35 AM
 
9,848 posts, read 30,187,543 times
Reputation: 10516
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancharlotte View Post
I did!!!

I'll also add that WRAL in Raleigh did a report on how the new Convention Center (and Fayetteville Street) may help downtown Raleigh rival uptown Charlotte for the next CIAA bidding. Clearly, the consensus in Raleigh is that Charlotte's Uptown was a "better" and "more exciting" place for the tournament.

Mayor: Raleigh to Make Another Play to Host CIAA Tournament :: WRAL.com
Actually I think I would agree that Charlotte was the better location at the time for the tournament due to its better facilities and geographic location. Now that Raleigh has a convention center downtown instead of just the facility out in the burbs at the RBC center it should be interesting to see where the tournament goes next. FWIW, I suggest you look up the word "consensus" as you will find you are using the word incorrectly.

But getting back to the point of this thread, how do you reconcile the fact that you feel Charlotte to be "better" and "more exciting" with the fact that Charlotte has fallen off the list of "big youth-magnet cities, or those that attract the nation's most talented young professionals, are likely to be"?

The fact that you disagree with the blogger's interpretation of the ranking doesn't change the fact that Charlotte was dropped off the list discussed in the WSJ story. Sure it points to banking taking a hit as part of the problem, but the way you make it sound the positives of Charlotte should more than outshine this negative. So what is going wrong with Charlotte? If it is so much better and exciting, why is it not doing as well as other places? Why aren't the youth seeing Charlotte's positives the way you do and what can Charlotte do a better job of to change the way it is perceived by this demographic?

Last edited by North_Raleigh_Guy; 10-11-2009 at 06:58 AM..
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Old 10-11-2009, 07:35 AM
 
7,126 posts, read 11,629,542 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North_Raleigh_Guy View Post

But getting back to the point of this thread, how do you reconcile the fact that you feel Charlotte to be "better" and "more exciting" with the fact that Charlotte has fallen off the list of "big youth-magnet cities, or those that attract the nation's most talented young professionals, are likely to be"?

The fact that you disagree with the blogger's interpretation of the ranking doesn't change the fact that Charlotte was dropped off the list discussed in the WSJ story. Sure it points to banking taking a hit as part of the problem, but the way you make it sound the positives of Charlotte should more than outshine this negative. So what is going wrong with Charlotte? If it is so much better and exciting, why is it not doing as well as other places? Why aren't the youth seeing Charlotte's positives the way you do and what can Charlotte do a better job of to change the way it is perceived by this demographic?
NOW we're getting somewhere ie: the WSJ article.
Thanks.
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Old 10-11-2009, 08:18 AM
 
4,222 posts, read 7,841,097 times
Reputation: 1577
Quote:
Originally Posted by North_Raleigh_Guy View Post

Is it just me or do you too find it ironic that Charlotte fought so hard for this tournament while at the same time championing a public school policy that promotes segregation? Interesting.
How desperate can one get. I suppose when one loses a debate, one pulls anything they can out of the hat that might help. In this case, the hat came up with something stupid contents. What exact policy exists in Charlotte that promotes segregation? Is it the freedom of choice? Yep, that even sounds of segregation. Looks like you should throw in the towell.
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Old 10-11-2009, 11:22 AM
 
7,051 posts, read 12,262,818 times
Reputation: 6407
Quote:
Originally Posted by North_Raleigh_Guy View Post
So what is going wrong with Charlotte? If it is so much better and exciting, why is it not doing as well as other places? Why aren't the youth seeing Charlotte's positives the way you do and what can Charlotte do a better job of to change the way it is perceived by this demographic?
Here is the chart posted by CarolinaBlue. I guess I will need to explain these numbers (being that some of us don't understand charts).


From 2000 to 2007, Raleigh only gained 0.2%. Charlotte gained 2.2% in the same time period. Why did Charlotte (and almost every other city on this chart) gain more than Raleigh? It is because Raleigh is very saturated (being so close to 50%). Charlotte is now very close to 50% (thus, Charlotte will be slowing down too). The WSJ report made a prediction that was based on Charlotte's banking industry. They "assumed" that Raleigh (college area) would thrive while Charlotte (banking town) would fall off. This assumption of theirs probably didn't take into account the fact that both Charlotte and Raleigh are nearly saturated.

Look at the nearly 6.0% gain of Jacksonville, Florida. They gained so much mostly because they had so little to start with. The WSJ prediction that Charlotte will "fall off" is correct (but NOT because of the reasons they gave). Charlotte will slow down because we are reaching the 50% mark (the same mark that Raleigh began to slow down at). The WSJ report is wrong about Raleigh's growth being larger than Charlotte's in the future. Again, this is because Raleigh is at 50% (the saturation point for that area). The guys at The WSJ did not take this into account. I am sure of it.
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