Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
EEK: you are entitled to your opinion, but I have to agree with Vindaloo. Some of the biggest whiners in this city are New Yorkers. We didn't vote to become the Sixth Burough but anyone who has had to endure the shrill complaints of New Yorkers about everything from the ignorant hicks their children are subjected to (and yes, I have heard that first hand) to the awful food here to how lacking the region is in entertainment, etc. is not gonna be impressed with your debate that many NYers come here and WHINE. THEY DO. And I have been told it is CULTURAL - that NYers whine about stuff in NY, too. But it is NOT Southern.
SOME nyers "whine" about stuff in ny because they don't know what they have. we don't see what everyone else sees until we leave...we take nyc for granted. look at the tourists and look at us. the tourists do things that we should do...instead, we tend to look down on it and throw labels around.
IMHO, living in nyc, there's nothing to complain about. yes, some expenses are high. you get what you pay for. nyc is the greatest city in the country, IMO, and any expenses come with the territory. don't like it, research first, get a job, then leave. then realize that you shouldn't have left and figure out how you're going to get back...
IMO anyway. i DO think that a lot of ppl end up in the south because of word of mouth, only to realize that the grass isn't always greener on the other side...these are the ones that end up complaining about how things are there and how things used to be "back in ny." it is what it is.
charlotte will never be nyc. if you want ny you have to be in ny, period. the sooner ppl realize this, the sooner you guys won't have to complain about nyers complaining about nc.
at the same time, ppl should be a lot open to hearing the opinions and observations of others.
charlotteans (or whatever you call ppl from charlotte) are some of the most closeminded ppl i've ever met. a suggestion is unheard of.
Quote:
And obviously, this is a cultural clash that continues here, b/c we Southerners are gonna always see that type of behavior as rude and ill-mannered and New Yorkers are gonna forever find it impossible to believe that we "don't get it" here. We DO get it. New Yorkers feel it is their God Given Right to complain! We just don't LIKE IT and feel it disturbs our universe. And yes, this was OUR universe b/f the mass migration to the region. It has nothing to do with being unwelcoming. It has everything to do with finding such behavior declasse and rude.
see, this is what i'm talking about. its like you're attacking one side for thinking that you "don't get it" by saying that we "don't get it" whatever "it" is.
we know that a lot of you are closeminded. we get that. we know that the south is pretty much content with the status quo. this is why change is slow there. we know.
we try to say, "ey...you could try this, or how about this" and we already know what type of reaction we're going to get...but it doesn't hurt to state an opinion.
personally, i think the fake politeness/so called southern hospitality is complete bull. if i don't like you then i don't like you. no need to pretend. thats for children.
Downstate NY folks complain - many of them endlessly... Things will never be big enough, fast enough, or good enough period. It's a cultural thing that is not going to change in my lifetime. Whether that justifies the predisposed opinion of a chip on the shoulder for all NY folks is open for debate, but I can point out plenty of southerners who don't try to cover up issues with people from NY just because they're from the north.
Some inaccuracies aside, the OP is pretty well structured and thought out, but there's clearly an undertone to the friendly "info"... and let's call a spade a spade. There's been countless iterations of posts like this on this board. Some more overt in the "come here accepting of the south or stay away" and others concentrating more on helpful facts for prospective relocations.
In the end, what is not going to change is that the country is hurting pretty bad... and it amazes me that people continue to try and hold on to the premise that it's "better" in certain areas. I mean I guess it is from certain perspectives, but the whole "Employment" section of the OP isn't nearly strong enough IMO. Charlotte is in much worse shape then most places in the US. It shouldn't just state not to relo without a job or certain skill sets - it should be clear that you're taking a serious risk relocating even with a job. God forbid you lose that job, your odds of finding another one are very low.
SOME nyers "whine" about stuff in ny because they don't know what they have. we don't see what everyone else sees until we leave...we take nyc for granted. look at the tourists and look at us. the tourists do things that we should do...instead, we tend to look down on it and throw labels around.
IMHO, living in nyc, there's nothing to complain about. yes, some expenses are high. you get what you pay for. nyc is the greatest city in the country, IMO, and any expenses come with the territory. don't like it, research first, get a job, then leave. then realize that you shouldn't have left and figure out how you're going to get back...
IMO anyway. i DO think that a lot of ppl end up in the south because of word of mouth, only to realize that the grass isn't always greener on the other side...these are the ones that end up complaining about how things are there and how things used to be "back in ny." it is what it is.
charlotte will never be nyc. if you want ny you have to be in ny, period. the sooner ppl realize this, the sooner you guys won't have to complain about nyers complaining about nc.
at the same time, ppl should be a lot open to hearing the opinions and observations of others.
charlotteans (or whatever you call ppl from charlotte) are some of the most closeminded ppl i've ever met. a suggestion is unheard of.
see, this is what i'm talking about. its like you're attacking one side for thinking that you "don't get it" by saying that we "don't get it" whatever "it" is.
we know that a lot of you are closeminded. we get that. we know that the south is pretty much content with the status quo. this is why change is slow there. we know.
we try to say, "ey...you could try this, or how about this" and we already know what type of reaction we're going to get...but it doesn't hurt to state an opinion.
personally, i think the fake politeness/so called southern hospitality is complete bull. if i don't like you then i don't like you. no need to pretend. thats for children.
EEK - I really appreciate what you wrote. And I would like to preface what I am going to write by saying I LOVE NY!!! I love visiting there and would like to live there at least part time. I have friends who have an apartment in Manhattan as well as a home here (they own a major NC corporation). I think that would be terrific - best of both worlds.
Often I write about what I have observed or experienced but that does not explain what my own personal beliefs are. I personally have stated many times on this forum that I have family in the NE and feel quite comfortable in the NE . . . so the observations I write about are not necessarily my opinions.
I am not offended by straight forward people at all. But I am trying to explain the differences in CULTURE which seem to clash here in the South. Southerners feel oppressed when folks move here and then demand that things "change." Think about that! Folks have lived here all their lives and LIKE IT AS IT IS. They feel newcomers are arrogant jerks for coming here and disparaging how life is in a place they helped build. See my point? I am critical of things here, myself, but I make sure I pick my battles (as far as with city/county leaders). When I was a newspaper editor, I didn't mind rocking the boat (in my small town) at all - if I felt local leaders needed to be chastised or pointed in a new direction. But that was accepted b/c I had been vested in my community for decades - and so had my family.
Someone moving here and comparing everything to "where I came from" is gonna be immediately dismissed, even if the observations are accurate, lol. After all, newcomers are not yet vested in the community. Does that make sense?
What you said about New Yorkers not realizing "what they had" and then moving here and being discouraged makes total sense to me. And I also understand your point about taking someone's "word" for how it is here in Charlotte - only to find out that the info didn't include some of the reality. But see - that's the thing! People are coming from different perspectives. To get the info you need, asking questions (of yourself and of others) is essential to getting the right info.
For ex: I have noticed that a lot of New Yorkers move here from Long Island and then are very disappointed with living near the lake as a substitution for living near the coast. Well, DUH! LI is singular! There is no way on earth I would assume I could substitute Lake Norman for the beach! I would be heartbroken and homesick if I left LI and moved here! Now, I would try to find other things I liked, but loving the coast as I do . . . there is a whole lifestyle tied to living near the ocean.
Unless a person stops to examine the compromises - moving from ANY PLACE to a new area of the country is gonna be full of surprises - and not all of them are gonna be pleasant surprises. I missed the Blue Ridge mountains at my back door while in Kansas. It took me a long time to adjust to being outdoors and not seeing the mountains on the horizon. But did anyone in KS tell me - oh, remember - there are no mountains here! Heck, no! They assumed I had done my research and that I had spent time in the area b/f making the big decision to move there.
As for "fake politeness" . . . this is referred to as gentility, social etiquette, civility, etc and is a virtue. It keeps things on a calm level in public places, as well as in neighborhoods, retail stores, etc. It doesn't mean you are going be friends w/ folks just b/c they are polite to you. It does mean, however, that confrontations will be less likely to occur.
Why is this important? Okay - I will let you in on something that confuses newcomers.
There is a REASON why Southerners work so hard at being polite and civil. The reason is b/c our heritage is one of "don't tread on me." By agreeing to disagree (and remaining polite) Southerners are attempting to avoid doing what they naturally revert to doing when they feel someone is treading on their rights.
Push a Southerner too far (infringe on his rights or malign his integrity/value system) and things go from polite and passive to rebel yell indignation in about 1/2 second. Southerners choose to employ civility and the patina of social graces rather than having to resort to whuppin' yer arse (verbally or otherwise).
One point I will make, however. To us Northerners:
"As for "fake politeness" . . . this is referred to as gentility, social etiquette, civility, etc and is a virtue. It keeps things on a calm level in public places, as well as in neighborhoods, retail stores, etc. It doesn't mean you are going be friends w/ folks just b/c they are polite to you. It does mean, however, that confrontations will be less likely to occur. " is very confusing to us. This "politeness" is pretty foreign to us and we take it to mean that you WILL be our very best friends, because a total stranger wouldn't be that polite...right??
I will say that is one thing that I really dislike about being here. It has made me paranoid because I never know when someone is being real. I have gotten to the point that I do not believe anything that anyone says anymore without a lot of backup. I have been burned too badly taking things literally over the years.
One Northern trait considered to be very ill-mannered here, I find quite refreshing: tell it like it is, confrontation or not. That way, you always know where you stand.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,684,299 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagocubs
Great article, Ani.
One point I will make, however. To us Northerners:
"As for "fake politeness" . . . this is referred to as gentility, social etiquette, civility, etc and is a virtue. It keeps things on a calm level in public places, as well as in neighborhoods, retail stores, etc. It doesn't mean you are going be friends w/ folks just b/c they are polite to you. It does mean, however, that confrontations will be less likely to occur. " is very confusing to us. This "politeness" is pretty foreign to us and we take it to mean that you WILL be our very best friends, because a total stranger wouldn't be that polite...right??
I will say that is one thing that I really dislike about being here. It has made me paranoid because I never know when someone is being real. I have gotten to the point that I do not believe anything that anyone says anymore without a lot of backup. I have been burned too badly taking things literally over the years.
One Northern trait considered to be very ill-mannered here, I find quite refreshing: tell it like it is, confrontation or not. That way, you always know where you stand.
Why would this confuse you? I have always lived places where perfect strangers talk. It's called passing the time of day, in a civil manner, while you wait.
SOME nyers "whine" about stuff in ny because they don't know what they have. we don't see what everyone else sees until we leave...we take nyc for granted. look at the tourists and look at us. the tourists do things that we should do...instead, we tend to look down on it and throw labels around.
IMHO, living in nyc, there's nothing to complain about. yes, some expenses are high. you get what you pay for. nyc is the greatest city in the country, IMO, and any expenses come with the territory. don't like it, research first, get a job, then leave. then realize that you shouldn't have left and figure out how you're going to get back...
IMO anyway. i DO think that a lot of ppl end up in the south because of word of mouth, only to realize that the grass isn't always greener on the other side...these are the ones that end up complaining about how things are there and how things used to be "back in ny." it is what it is.
charlotte will never be nyc. if you want ny you have to be in ny, period. the sooner ppl realize this, the sooner you guys won't have to complain about nyers complaining about nc.
at the same time, ppl should be a lot open to hearing the opinions and observations of others.
charlotteans (or whatever you call ppl from charlotte) are some of the most closeminded ppl i've ever met. a suggestion is unheard of.
see, this is what i'm talking about. its like you're attacking one side for thinking that you "don't get it" by saying that we "don't get it" whatever "it" is.
we know that a lot of you are closeminded. we get that. we know that the south is pretty much content with the status quo. this is why change is slow there. we know.
we try to say, "ey...you could try this, or how about this" and we already know what type of reaction we're going to get...but it doesn't hurt to state an opinion.
personally, i think the fake politeness/so called southern hospitality is complete bull. if i don't like you then i don't like you. no need to pretend. thats for children.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyKid
Downstate NY folks complain - many of them endlessly... Things will never be big enough, fast enough, or good enough period. It's a cultural thing that is not going to change in my lifetime. Whether that justifies the predisposed opinion of a chip on the shoulder for all NY folks is open for debate, but I can point out plenty of southerners who don't try to cover up issues with people from NY just because they're from the north.
Some inaccuracies aside, the OP is pretty well structured and thought out, but there's clearly an undertone to the friendly "info"... and let's call a spade a spade. There's been countless iterations of posts like this on this board. Some more overt in the "come here accepting of the south or stay away" and others concentrating more on helpful facts for prospective relocations.
In the end, what is not going to change is that the country is hurting pretty bad... and it amazes me that people continue to try and hold on to the premise that it's "better" in certain areas. I mean I guess it is from certain perspectives, but the whole "Employment" section of the OP isn't nearly strong enough IMO. Charlotte is in much worse shape then most places in the US. It shouldn't just state not to relo without a job or certain skill sets - it should be clear that you're taking a serious risk relocating even with a job. God forbid you lose that job, your odds of finding another one are very low.
This forum is about charlotte not NY. Please do not hijack this thread or any threads
Why would this confuse you? I have always lived places where perfect strangers talk. It's called passing the time of day, in a civil manner, while you wait.
Well, to begin with, that is not what I was talking about...I was in reference to Ani's explanation of what was termed "fake politeness" by another poster.
However, the matter of strangers talking to you is a different one...but, one that also confuses me. If I don't know you, I don't understand why you would (even want to) talk to me in public. In the city, when that happens, it means you are setting me up to mug me. Now, I am well aware that is not the case here (usually), but, it is still scary to me when random people talk to me.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,684,299 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagocubs
Well, to begin with, that is not what I was talking about...I was in reference to Ani's explanation of what was termed "fake politeness" by another poster.
However, the matter of strangers talking to you is a different one...but, one that also confuses me. If I don't know you, I don't understand why you would (even want to) talk to me in public. In the city, when that happens, it means you are setting me up to mug me. Now, I am well aware that is not the case here (usually), but, it is still scary to me when random people talk to me.
I was brought up in Michigan. There was a code of fake politeness at all times. I was brought up with the same explanation that Ani gave. It keeps things going along, keeps the ruckuses to a minimum, & should never be confused for being real friends.
As for speaking to strangers, I lived in Grand Rapids & also in small towns. Mom's family was from a small town & Dad's was from a small city (Kalamazoo). In the cities, children were not to speak to strangers without parental consent, but adults always spoke. In the small towns everyone spoke.
South Jersey & Philadelphia are MidAtlantic & both areas are noted for strangers striking up conversations anywhere.
I think nothing of strangers talking to me in stores or on the street. I expect it. I'm offended if I try to strike up a conversation & the person acts like I'm a mugger.
I am as much of a northerner as you are, but this is something that is not foreign to me. You have lived in the south for many years, & I was curious as to why this bothers you. None of it bothers me.
Well, to begin with, that is not what I was talking about...I was in reference to Ani's explanation of what was termed "fake politeness" by another poster.
However, the matter of strangers talking to you is a different one...but, one that also confuses me. If I don't know you, I don't understand why you would (even want to) talk to me in public. In the city, when that happens, it means you are setting me up to mug me. Now, I am well aware that is not the case here (usually), but, it is still scary to me when random people talk to me.
Wow, I'm glad people don't mind when I randomly talk to them - which I've been doing regularly for over 8 weeks since I've been up in Syracuse.
Since I didn't know a soul here besides my husband I made it my goal to go out and meet at least two new people a day so I could start to feel more acclimated and not so lonely.
I've randomly struck up conversations in the park, in the book store, in the grocery and just walking down the street! So far a few people have said, "you're not from around here are you?" - we both laugh but then we talk some more, but no one has refused to speak to me, or looked at me like I'm a serial killer, LOL. I've met some really nice people this way
I jest don't know bout them yankees!!! LOL - JUST KIDDING
As long as you can eat grits and country ham biscuits adorned with red eye gravy, your ok in MY book
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I have always lived places where perfect strangers talk. It's called passing the time of day, in a civil manner, while you wait.
Now, I am well aware that is not the case here (usually), but, it is still scary to me when random people talk to me. 
