The bust hits the boomtown that banks built. (Charlotte: mortgage, homes)

[sophialee]

Originally Posted by Carolina Blue

That's not true at all. Do you actually live in Charlotte? Have you ever? I’m starting to think not. You never hear the media folks say that. Nobody does. They always say stuff like, “We have a report from Center City”. Or, “Let’s go live to our Center City studio.” Nobody says, “We have a report now live from The Center City.” Why do you constantly make up stuff????

I've heard Epicenter, which is an actual place, never The City Center. Maybe he's confused ? Lol.

[lumbollo]

LOL. sophialee, since when do I post incorrect or incomplete information here? I've had CB on my ignore list for a long time so I didn't even know he posted that, but I digress.

I did a quick search on Charlotte and "the center city" and got 444,000, hits or something like that. I know there will be some that will even complain about that so have a look at this "official plan"

Charlotte 2020

It mentions the The Center City 2020 plan or something like that. I've proven my point, it's the last I will say about it. Funny thing is, when 2020 gets here, they will be trying to brand it as something else.

It's still downtown to me.

[MikeyKid]

Let go of the ghost already... Charlotte has been on a down swing for a long while now and it's bubble burst with the rest of country. Sure it took longer to pop then many places, but continuing to overlook it, mask it, downplay it, or get into semantics with the data to a conclusion that Charlotte is "still better" then other cities is counter productive.

Those infamous "top places" lists are so subjective and I never put much stock in them anyway. One person's green pasture is another person's flat, featureless piece of land. The fact remains that Charlotte was just getting to a point where it's infrastructure was beginning to redline when the economy went bust. It was actually pretty timely and in the end it may work out because it will give the area a nice lull to stabilize and recover. When it turns around, my guess is the area will be the better for it. Trying to hype it by pointing out where it's worse isn't going to do anybody any good.

[JViello]

Originally Posted by Akhenaton06

It's much, much more than that, but I'll just name two things they've done really well downtown that Charlotte hasn't (yet): retail that actually fronts the street inside historic shopfronts and isn't bottled up inside office towers and a signature urban park with a natural water feature. That city's downtown wouldn't receive as many visits from other city delegations and receive as many accolades as it does (like this 2009 Great Street award from the American Planning Association) if it were just a fluke. I love uptown Charlotte and it has certainly come a ways within the past several years as well, but in terms of just casually strolling and hanging out without a destination in mind, that's not really something you can do in uptown Charlotte. You can, however, do that in downtown Greenville. I'm not pitting the two downtowns against each other as they are clearly different beasts, but that particular difference is noticeable.



That is by far the most disingenuous exaggeration I have ever read. It is patently false. No, there's not as much going on when you venture a block or two away from Main, but to say it's a pit is just flat-out wrong, wrong, wrong.

As a place to live, some might think the city is all or mostly hype. That's subjective with any place. But there's no denying the success the city's downtown has had in terms of its revitalization efforts. It's not even debatable.

I'm sorry to waste others time with this - I guess I can't simply have an opinion without someone challenging it and calling me "disingenous"...so, here read this post I made in the Greenville forum and tell me if going a block or two outside of DT is not a "pit".

Originally Posted by JViello

OMG - another site that focuses on Reedy Falls and a 3 block region as if it represents the entire West End.

I would love...Just LOVE if someone would post a picture of, oh maybe...

N Markley St just a couple blocks over from the new "West End Field".

Wait...OMG, Google has this thing called "street view". Have a look for yourself! YIKES!

greenville sc - Google Maps

No? You want a little closer to Reedy Fall and the field? Okay how about *1* block over in the "West End" on Oneal and Rhett street.

greenville sc - Google Maps

Wait, how about literally ACROSS THE STREET 200 feet "Southwest" from all the super bling pics that are posted about Reedy Falls Park on River Street/South Main intersection.

greenville sc - Google Maps

Holy crap...you don't see that in photos, do you?

There you go folks, that's what you can expect outside of the pom pom pictures. I must have missed that on the "West End" website. My bad.

Have a ball...

Here is another slap of Gville reality:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/green...nville-sc.html

As for the hyperbole about lists and awards - Yawn. A small town like Dover NH has a better, more historic and vibrant downtown for crying out loud. Don't even compare a city like Portland ME or X New England town with - gasp, OMG "historic storefronts and a walkable downtown!"

Salisbury NC is light years ahead of Greenville in that regard.

Sorry folks for the thread drift...I'm done now.

Best,

J

[lumbollo]

JVielo, if your moniker is correct and you actually live in New England, I am curious as to why you are trying to convince us here in the Charlotte forum that Greenville is the arm pit?

Just asking.

[JViello]

Originally Posted by lumbollo

JVielo, if your moniker is correct and you actually live in New England, I am curious as to why you are trying to convince us here in the Charlotte forum that Greenville is the arm pit?

Just asking.

Where do you get I'm trying to convince anyone? I'm simply stating some "reality" and saying your own city has much more to offer in many ways - Greenville is a very over hyped city. I didn't bring it up.

I used to live in Charlotte and have lived and/or had extended visits around the nation. Yes I'm in New England now. A great place if you can stand the taxes and liberal policies.

[Carolina Blue]

Originally Posted by lumbollo

LOL. sophialee, since when do I post incorrect or incomplete information here? I've had CB on my ignore list for a long time so I didn't even know he posted that, but I digress.

I did a quick search on Charlotte and "the center city" and got 444,000, hits or something like that. I know there will be some that will even complain about that so have a look at this "official plan"

Charlotte 2020

It mentions the The Center City 2020 plan or something like that. I've proven my point, it's the last I will say about it. Funny thing is, when 2020 gets here, they will be trying to brand it as something else.

It's still downtown to me.

Language is not your strong suit. In that link you provided when they have "The" capitalized, they are referring to "the plan", i.e. "The Center City 2010 Plan". Unfortunatley you don't understand the difference. For example, here are direct quotes from that link you provided...

"...The Charlotte Center City 2020 Vision Plan planning and design process began..."

versus

"...The interactive and engaging public process will provide integral direction for a successful Plan and result in a vision for the Center City that reflects the entire community..."

"...The planning process will inspire public and private partnerships and foster collaborations within and beyond Center City."

Link: Charlotte 2020 : Content: About the Plan

[Carolina Blue]

Originally Posted by CouponJack

You missed the point IMO. No one is saying that its not bad all over.

The problem is that FINALLY someone wrote a story on how bad things are here in Charlotte (opposed to all the feel good Fortune magazine articles...right CB? ) We needed more of these types of articles so people from other parts of the country could stop flocking here.
.....

Jack you never answered the question earlier about what city leaders could have done to prevent the predicament we're in now. So based on your reply above, are you saying they should have "stopped people from other parts of the country from flocking here"? Is that the answer?

[Akhenaton06]

Originally Posted by JViello

I'm sorry to waste others time with this - I guess I can't simply have an opinion without someone challenging it and calling me "disingenous"

Your opinion was disingenuous.

...so, here read this post I made in the Greenville forum and tell me if going a block or two outside of DT is not a "pit".

I don't have to read anything. I'm quite familiar with the city and have walked around downtown on several occasions. I know what I'm talking about; I don't need Google maps. And at any rate, if you call those light industrial areas with a few parking lots and undeveloped land which are found in the West End a few blocks off Main "pits," then you have been sheltered in a MAJOR way. That's an exaggeration of the worst kind. It would be like calling the intersection of Trade and Graham here in Charlotte a "pit." It's not the most appealing area of the urban core, but it's far from being a pit.

That thread you linked to could be Charlotte or Atlanta or any other city outside of downtown with strip malls and parking lots. Nobody said the entire city had development all over the place and was as dense as Paris. I was strictly talking about downtown.

And yes, New England towns ARE legitimately recognized as models for urban revitalization with their charming, quaint downtowns. Absolutely. I don't know if you mentioning them was supposed to bolster your argument somehow?

Salisbury, NC light years ahead of Greenville? I don't think so and apparently neither do Salisbury city leaders. You generally don't visit a city you're light years ahead of for inspiration: SalisburyPost.com - Area - S.C. sights: Greenville trip meant to be used for inspiration Not to mention that Salisbury doesn't have any life on the streets downtown after working hours, doesn't have an urban park with falls, doesn't have a revitalized warehouse district, etc. which all make your point even that much more ludicrous.

[CouponJack]

Originally Posted by Carolina Blue

Jack you never answered the question earlier about what city leaders could have done to prevent the predicament we're in now. So based on your reply above, are you saying they should have "stopped people from other parts of the country from flocking here"? Is that the answer?

I did answer what we could've done better. Didn't your read my earlier post?

Since ALL leaders are scrambling now and saying "we have to diversify ourselves (obv a remark saying we just cant live on banking alone)", where was this thinking 2 years ago? We just lived high on the hog and again I agree w/that statement (like ani and others have said ad nauseum), however we are a day late and a dollar short....the vision is lacking.

Also, local towns got way ahead of themselves (including my town) where developers had free reign to develop (and paid leaders obv w/campaign contributions to not allow any resistance). Well look what happened in the suburbs? It got out of control. Over the years if you had responsible leaders that had a VISION to say you know what, we don't have the infrastructure to support this (or even basic things like an adequate water supply), we wouldn't be in as much trouble as we are right now. This is nothing new (the discussion about sprawl)...I've and others have been saying it for two years.

This all I've said before....