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Old 11-30-2009, 05:27 PM
 
4,010 posts, read 8,924,417 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CouponJack View Post
Overpaid is an opinion. Whether you like it or not, they (players) are paid what the market will bear..... .
Well there is the minor detail of NBA owners rationalizing their tax payer funded arenas, including the one here in Charlotte, because they could not otherwise afford to operate their teams. I am more than happy to let the NBA operate in a manner that capitalists love so lets get them to pay the city $300M for the arena and we will call it even. I wouldn't even hold them to the property taxes they currently don't pay on the place.
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Old 11-30-2009, 05:28 PM
 
2,341 posts, read 4,045,530 times
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If grandma had balls, she'd be grandpa. It is what it is, nothing new about it.
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Old 11-30-2009, 06:22 PM
 
1,877 posts, read 4,303,809 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lumbollo View Post
Well there is the minor detail of NBA owners rationalizing their tax payer funded arenas, including the one here in Charlotte, because they could not otherwise afford to operate their teams. I am more than happy to let the NBA operate in a manner that capitalists love so lets get them to pay the city $300M for the arena and we will call it even. I wouldn't even hold them to the property taxes they currently don't pay on the place.
Didnt beat that horse enough in your previous 50 posts concerning the Bobcats?? Seriously, we all get that you're hacked off about the arena. Sad reality is, the deal is done (at no real expense to you), and it aint gonna get undone. SO, is there any real reason the rest of us cant indulge ourselves in a little glee over the team's recent success?? You can resume being the board's resident curmudgeon on any of the other 10,000 posts on this site. Thanks!
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Old 11-30-2009, 06:41 PM
 
4,010 posts, read 8,924,417 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoagie58 View Post
Didnt beat that horse enough in your previous 50 posts concerning the Bobcats?? Seriously, we all get that you're hacked off about the arena. Sad reality is, the deal is done (at no real expense to you), and it aint gonna get undone. SO, is there any real reason the rest of us cant indulge ourselves in a little glee over the team's recent success?? You can resume being the board's resident curmudgeon on any of the other 10,000 posts on this site. Thanks!
Your characterization on the reasons that made that post are completely off base, incorrect and the name calling unnecessary. If my posts are making you less than gleeful about the Bobcats, there is a very easy solution. It's called Ignore, as in please use this forum function Thanks!
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Old 11-30-2009, 07:54 PM
 
Location: Wouldn't you like to know?
9,114 posts, read 15,639,458 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lumbollo View Post
Well there is the minor detail of NBA owners rationalizing their tax payer funded arenas, including the one here in Charlotte, because they could not otherwise afford to operate their teams. I am more than happy to let the NBA operate in a manner that capitalists love so lets get them to pay the city $300M for the arena and we will call it even. I wouldn't even hold them to the property taxes they currently don't pay on the place.
Whether you agree with this or not, isn't this the same as the state trying to lure business to NC w/tax breaks?

I'm not trying to be smart, I'm honestly asking the question, what's the difference?
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Old 12-01-2009, 03:44 AM
 
4,010 posts, read 8,924,417 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CouponJack View Post
Whether you agree with this or not, isn't this the same as the state trying to lure business to NC w/tax breaks?

I'm not trying to be smart, I'm honestly asking the question, what's the difference?
Oh I don't consider you in the category of someone who might ask smart ass questions so here is my answer. How many of these businesses pay their handful of employees, who mostly don't live in Charlotte, 10's of millions of dollars? It seems a bit of a tragedy that we might equate making millionaires, even bigger millionaires, to that of attracting businesses who might provide some meaningful employment to the 100's of 1000s in NC without jobs. The entire false argument given for spending this money was because we have to pay the NBA players so much. This tells me they are not marketable at the rates they are being paid and it's on the taxpayers heads to provide them a subsidy. In other words, in a true capitalist market, they would be paid a lot less.

If the sole purpose of spending the $300M was to create meaningful employment then this was a very bad way to do it. It's especially bad when you consider that we had a modern general purpose indoor stadium, the largest in NC, that we tore down for this project which attracted more non-NBA events than the current very NBA specific arena. It also perfectly highlights the misguided celebrity driven culture in this country where tax subsidies are tossed out without any concern for someone to toss a ball around and there is nothing for say engineers, scientists, chemists, etc etc, the kinds of things we need but which are quickly disappearing.
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Old 12-01-2009, 09:23 AM
 
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1. The people voted against building a new arena but democracy in Charlotte is non- existant. Even our "elected leaders" are just puppets to what the banks and big names want. Well, the people are still pissed.

2. The NBA is pricing itself out of business. NY and LA could probably support 4 teams each easily but there is too much good, free, or at least affordable basketball in NC. We dont need the NBA.
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Old 12-01-2009, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Wouldn't you like to know?
9,114 posts, read 15,639,458 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idnmadt View Post
The NBA is pricing itself out of business. NY and LA could probably support 4 teams each easily but there is too much good, free, or at least affordable basketball in NC. We dont need the NBA.
Even though NC mainly loves its College Basketball, there's no reason why the NBA can't thrive here. If you don't think so, then you're not being objective about it. They have the population base in the region and you do have knowledgeable basketball fans. I wasn't here when the Hornets were around, but I know they were suppported, correct?

Having said that, the Bobcats (organization) needs to do things differently in certain ways (as we had a thread about them recently). Mainly, the team would have to be a winning team to bring fannies in the seats, and also I think ticket prices could come down (in the lower level) from where they are now.....
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Old 12-01-2009, 11:10 AM
 
Location: Some got six month some got one solid. But me and my buddies all got lifetime here
4,551 posts, read 9,272,913 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CouponJack View Post
Even though NC mainly loves its College Basketball, there's no reason why the NBA can't thrive here. If you don't think so, then you're not being objective about it. They have the population base in the region and you do have knowledgeable basketball fans. I wasn't here when the Hornets were around, but I know they were suppported, correct?

Having said that, the Bobcats (organization) needs to do things differently in certain ways (as we had a thread about them recently). Mainly, the team would have to be a winning team to bring fannies in the seats, and also I think ticket prices could come down (in the lower level) from where they are now.....

The New Jersey Devils moved into a brand new arena last season, an arena with a seating capacity somewhere around 2,000 seats less (give or take) than the Bendan Byrne/Continental/Meadowlands/Izod/whatever they call it. A beautiful new arena, three championships since 1995, well above .500 seasons year after year and that team still can't sell out it's own building. When they were in the old building they were getting announced attendance numbers that hovered somewhere around 12-13,000 people...during the first two rounds of the playoffs.

With this new arena being less than a five minute walk from Newark Penn Station, they lost the excuse that they weren't selling out due to a lack of public transportation. Yet get the Rangers or Flyers in there and it turns into a sellout. During the final playoff game between the Rangers and Devils, won by New York, I heard two incensed announcers speak about how the Devils fanbase simply wasn't there to show it's support. I think treading water fan base wise, after over 20 years in the state, kinda tells a story.

Winning teams don't always equate to putting people in the seats. If the fan base isn't there, or there's an extremely established team close by, a winning team isn't going to solve an attendance problem. The Bobcats might be battling just that: people who have no interest in a basketball team, and these phantom teams...people who still hold allegiances to teams like the Knicks, 76'ers, or whatever basketball team they used to root for. No winning season is a quick fix for those particular problems.

As far as apathy towards the team beacuse of civic leaders for going against their wishes...meh. If if were their old team moving into that building it might be a different story, regardless of what spoken public opinion might say.
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Old 12-01-2009, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Wouldn't you like to know?
9,114 posts, read 15,639,458 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianH1970 View Post
The New Jersey Devils moved into a brand new arena last season, an arena with a seating capacity somewhere around 2,000 seats less (give or take) than the Bendan Byrne/Continental/Meadowlands/Izod/whatever they call it. A beautiful new arena, three championships since 1995, well above .500 seasons year after year and that team still can't sell out it's own building. When they were in the old building they were getting announced attendance numbers that hovered somewhere around 12-13,000 people...during the first two rounds of the playoffs.

With this new arena being less than a five minute walk from Newark Penn Station, they lost the excuse that they weren't selling out due to a lack of public transportation. Yet get the Rangers or Flyers in there and it turns into a sellout. During the final playoff game between the Rangers and Devils, won by New York, I heard two incensed announcers speak about how the Devils fanbase simply wasn't there to show it's support. I think treading water fan base wise, after over 20 years in the state, kinda tells a story.

Winning teams don't always equate to putting people in the seats. If the fan base isn't there, or there's an extremely established team close by, a winning team isn't going to solve an attendance problem. The Bobcats might be battling just that: people who have no interest in a basketball team, and these phantom teams...people who still hold allegiances to teams like the Knicks, 76'ers, or whatever basketball team they used to root for. No winning season is a quick fix for those particular problems.

As far as apathy towards the team beacuse of civic leaders for going against their wishes...meh. If if were their old team moving into that building it might be a different story, regardless of what spoken public opinion might say.
Brian, those are good points and regarding the Devils, that is a weird situation. You're right, they've been rediculously good since say what, '95 when they won the cup..? All they do is win and cannot fill the arena. I chalk it up to the Devils are like the Mets in some weird way. They (Devils) are the red-headed stepchild to the Rangers (like the Mets are to the Yankees) and will never be as popular. (Many would want to goto a Yankees or Rangers game, but not Devils or Mets)...... That could be 1 reason. However, since they've been so good (the Devils), they STILL should sell out.....Maybe because Hockey is 4th in popularity in the tri-state area could have somethign to do w/it (not as popular as say in Boston....)?


Regarding the Bobcats, they've never been good, so until they start winning, who knows...we'll just have to wait and see if attendance picks up. I'm thinking it will, but I could be wrong....
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