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Old 11-28-2009, 09:34 AM
 
11,836 posts, read 25,436,080 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vindaloo View Post
Thinking that a grid or street names is a deterrant to smart growth is pretty lame. Queen's Road is usually the example. This situation happens all over the place in Europe. Last time I was in Dublin, my street change names four times before I got to my hotel. People there aren't crying about it harming "smart growth".
I'm thinking that its more a case of why isn't Charlotte more like Chicago or NYC or any other town that someone has left to come here. If you miss what you left you have two choices either find a town or urban area that fits your needs or go back from whence you came.
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Old 11-28-2009, 09:45 AM
 
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[quote=chicagocubs;11803871]The mess that I refer to is a lack of walkable neighbourhoods, the prevalence of subdivisions with cul-de-sacs which prevent not only walking places,

You might want to consider walking to the end of the cul-de-sac, turning around and continuing your walk.

but, access to public transportation.

Buses cover all areas in Mecklenburg County.

The road horror of constantly changing names, no grid system to easily get around.

This has hampered smart growth? LOL!

This also is a deterrent to the mom-and-pop shop which thrive on their customers walking to their store....which is practically impossible here.

You use the term "here". Are you saying that because we have a unique situation that doesn't happen in your former part of the country? I can provide a list of mom-and-pop stores at which I can walk. That tells me that it isn't "practically impossible".

This is a general statement..there are a few areas, and a few more planned areas, but, overall, if you are looking for a proper neighbourhood where you can live car-free, your only (real) option is if you live in downtown Charlotte and that is not affordable for most.

Might want to add Birkdale, Midwood, Dilworth, Southend, Southpark, Myers Park, many suburbs, and the lake towns of Dilworth, Cornelius, and many other places.


Downtown Charlotte is NOT dense at all. Go to any major city and you will see density. That was NOT what I was referring to
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Old 11-28-2009, 11:22 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Native_Son View Post
...

I'd like to ask where you get your numbers from though... I'd have put the number closer to 50K. Still not may meet YOUR definition of "dense" or "spectacular"...
These numbers come from the US Census Bureau for the 6 census districts that make up the area within I-277. The 1990 numbers are from the official count, the 2008 numbers are their estimate.
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Old 11-28-2009, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
7,041 posts, read 13,105,221 times
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All I can say is please read the link provided above. You will then see that Charlotte's growth does not qualify as being "smart" according to the architect that coined the term. This is not a comparison to other areas nor anything else. Simply going by the definition.

But, of course, the definition is wrong and Charlotte is a spectacular picture of "smart growth" among the Sun Belt cities.

Smart Growth Scorecards | Smart Growth | US EPA
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Old 11-28-2009, 11:40 AM
 
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The only municipality in this area that meets most of those goals, IMO, is Davidson. Where it doesn't it's because it's under state control (NCDOT) or county control (CMS).
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Old 11-28-2009, 11:45 AM
am2 am2 started this thread
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stlterp View Post
Downtown Charlotte is not dense, but a city does not have to have a grid street system to have smart growth - witness Phoenix as an example. I don't see how changing street names, while annoying, is a deterrent to smart growth either.

And as far as living car-free, I would suggest that Dilworth, Plaza Midwood, South End, parts of Elizabeth, Cherry, etc are all alternatives to Uptown.
and south park too.
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Old 11-28-2009, 04:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by am2 View Post
They talked slot about "sprawl" in the news over the years. What exactly is "smart" growth and is/has it happening here?
Smart growth is somewhat broad term, but basically means taking steps to regulate new growth better. Smart growth includes anything from transit oriented development, to growth boundaries, to stricter zoning. It often includes working with the city, but other municipalities and regional governments in the region or working with state agencies. A good example of smart growth would be Portland, OR. The problem planners and officials have with smart growth is trying to find a balance between implementing policies, without stepping too hard on property rights.

Although I think Charlotte could do a better job of working with it's surrounding counties on a regional level, I think they are doing okay (compared to other cities) on some of the new things they implementing, like more public transit, bike lanes, and TODs.
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Old 11-28-2009, 05:15 PM
 
4,222 posts, read 6,711,313 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagocubs View Post
All I can say is please read the link provided above. You will then see that Charlotte's growth does not qualify as being "smart" according to the architect that coined the term. This is not a comparison to other areas nor anything else. Simply going by the definition.

But, of course, the definition is wrong and Charlotte is a spectacular picture of "smart growth" among the Sun Belt cities.

Smart Growth Scorecards | Smart Growth | US EPA
Other than emission issue, I found this to be complimentary of Charlotte. What is it you want to point out?
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Old 11-28-2009, 05:23 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
7,041 posts, read 13,105,221 times
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vindaloo, why are you trying to pick a fight?

... the link that I posted was in addition to the previous link which defined "smart growth" which is what I said I was referring to.
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Old 11-28-2009, 06:23 PM
 
2,603 posts, read 4,270,313 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vindaloo View Post

You might want to consider walking to the end of the cul-de-sac, turning around and continuing your walk.
What good does that do? I think a walkable neighborhood implies that it's possible to walk TO amenities like grocery stores, restaurants, etc. Plus, cul-de-sacs inhibit neighborhood connectivity and can make what should be a 10-minute walk 30 minutes. At that point, might as well drive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vindaloo View Post
Buses cover all areas in Mecklenburg County.
No. They don't. The entire area of 51 from Park Road to the Arboretum is a dead zone. Many parts of Southwest Charlotte, most of Pineville, parts of the University area even, Mountain Island Lake and Long Creek areas are not covered by the system.


Quote:
Originally Posted by vindaloo View Post
Might want to add Birkdale, Midwood, Dilworth, Southend, Southpark, Myers Park, many suburbs, and the lake towns of Dilworth, Cornelius, and many other places.
Most of these are not affordable either. I'm not sure Birkdale qualifies as walkable. Is there a grocery store in the development? Never ceases to amaze how they will build these "new urbanist" developments without a food store..How ridiculous is that? I also would not count Southpark.. The roads are much too wide and drivers too unalert for it to be walkable. Myers Park is borderline. Don't know anything about Cornelius but will have to check it out now.

In general, I think Charlotte has done better than Atlanta at acheiving some smart growth. But the effects of the (sub)urban planning mindset of the 1950s-1980s are going to be very hard to offset since that is when a lot of Charlotte's growth happened. So far, we haven't had any racists calling for the defunding of public transit, and our state's excellent annexation law has kept the suburbs from seceding -- though some of the surrounding counties may cause problems in the times ahead. Still, we have been way too responsive to the developers, and mixed-use has been used only sparingly and artificially -- as if it is something unique or different rather than the way city people lived from the beginning of time until 60 years ago. Hopefully the growth of in-town neighborhoods will continue.
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