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I would agree, Coupon. There was no planning, no strategy involved. That is why we have the mess that we have!
What's the mess we have? Super dense urban downtown? Mixed use development all over town? wedges and corridors?
The mess is from all the commuters living in neighboring bedroom suburbs, and transplants moving to them for *more cheap*. Charlotte has done a fine job of planning growth, but no matter what there's two things they can't control: Consumers and areas outside their city limits.
What's the mess we have? Super dense urban downtown?
Well if you ask. Downtown population has increased from 6000 in the 1990 census to somewhere around 10K now. 4000 people in 20 years isn't exactly super dense or spectacular.
Well if you ask. Downtown population has increased from 6000 in the 1990 census to somewhere around 10K now. 4000 people in 20 years isn't exactly super dense or spectacular.
Moderator cut: We may attack ideas (politely) but we do not attack the speaker of the idea. Be careful with your words, there is a point where being direct crosses a line into blunt, in-your-face hostility
I'd like to ask where you get your numbers from though... I'd have put the number closer to 50K. Still not may meet YOUR definition of "dense" or "spectacular"...
Last edited by SunnyKayak; 11-28-2009 at 08:32 AM..
I have to ask. And the question, again, is: What's the "mess we have"?(according to chicago). you can answer for her (we all know your practically omniscient) or you can let her give her own opinion.
I'd like to ask where you get your numbers from though... I'd have put the number closer to 50 or 60K. Still not may meet YOUR definition of "dense" or "spectacular", but waaaaay different than what you claim.
The mess that I refer to is a lack of walkable neighbourhoods, the prevalence of subdivisions with cul-de-sacs which prevent not only walking places, but, access to public transportation. The road horror of constantly changing names, no grid system to easily get around. This also is a deterrent to the mom-and-pop shop which thrive on their customers walking to their store....which is practically impossible here. This is a general statement..there are a few areas, and a few more planned areas, but, overall, if you are looking for a proper neighbourhood where you can live car-free, your only (real) option is if you live in downtown Charlotte and that is not affordable for most.
Downtown Charlotte is NOT dense at all. Go to any major city and you will see density. That was NOT what I was referring to.
The mess is from all the commuters living in neighboring bedroom suburbs, and transplants moving to them for *more cheap*. Charlotte has done a fine job of planning growth, but no matter what there's two things they can't control: Consumers and areas outside their city limits.
+1
If more people would choose to live within a few miles of their circle of activities (work, schools, church, shopping, clubs, etc) traffic would be much less.
People do have a free choice, but this congestion is not rocket science...(re Providence Rd & 485 every afternoon).
The mess that I refer to is a lack of walkable neighbourhoods, the prevalence of subdivisions with cul-de-sacs which prevent not only walking places, but, access to public transportation. The road horror of constantly changing names, no grid system to easily get around. This also is a deterrent to the mom-and-pop shop which thrive on their customers walking to their store....which is practically impossible here. This is a general statement..there are a few areas, and a few more planned areas, but, overall, if you are looking for a proper neighbourhood where you can live car-free, your only (real) option is if you live in downtown Charlotte and that is not affordable for most.
Downtown Charlotte is NOT dense at all. Go to any major city and you will see density. That was NOT what I was referring to.
Downtown Charlotte is not dense, but a city does not have to have a grid street system to have smart growth - witness Phoenix as an example. I don't see how changing street names, while annoying, is a deterrent to smart growth either.
And as far as living car-free, I would suggest that Dilworth, Plaza Midwood, South End, parts of Elizabeth, Cherry, etc are all alternatives to Uptown.
Downtown Charlotte is not dense, but a city does not have to have a grid street system to have smart growth - witness Phoenix as an example. I don't see how changing street names, while annoying, is a deterrent to smart growth either.
And as far as living car-free, I would suggest that Dilworth, Plaza Midwood, South End, parts of Elizabeth, Cherry, etc are all alternatives to Uptown.
My wife and I often take long walks in South End, Myers Park, Southpark, Dilworth, Birkdale, Elizabeth and other areas. I live at Lake Norman and don't really need a car. Everything is walking distance. I don't think that certain people understand the extreme growth patterns in the area. Smart growth is simply having infrastructure in place before building and doing that has been pretty successful considering the thousands that move here every year. Thinking that a grid or street names is a deterrant to smart growth is pretty lame. Queen's Road is usually the example. This situation happens all over the place in Europe. Last time I was in Dublin, my street change names four times before I got to my hotel. People there aren't crying about it harming "smart growth".
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Queen's Road is usually the example. This situation happens all over the place in Europe. Last time I was in Dublin, my street change names four times before I got to my hotel. People there aren't crying about it harming "smart growth".
