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Old 03-18-2010, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, N.C. area
445 posts, read 680,887 times
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So what is the basis for that data?

They don't state whether the deaths are due to crime, accident or a crime victim shooting another in the process of protecting their own life.

That statistic is pretty much meaningless without the specific date.

The FBI uniform crime statistics are the ones that have more validity rather than some unknown web site.
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Old 03-18-2010, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Charlotte Area
530 posts, read 1,028,938 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by susan42 View Post
Reason I asked was because I found this (doesn't say for which year, or give their source) and was quite astounded at the comparisons.

Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is not allowed
Clearly the gun laws are far stricter in NY as another poster cited it as his reason for moving to NC.
Susan, I feel like you're trying to draw the conclusion that NewYork's crime rate is better based on stricter gun laws...

I'm sorry to say, the link you posted doesn't prove that.

#1 we haven't prove that NY has stricter gun laws, and/or whether or not the difference in the laws effects criminals at all. we've already established that criminals don't follow the law, so how are stricter gun laws going to effect criminals?

#2 we have no idea who put this site together, how the figured the stats, and whether or not we can trust it.

#3 even if we could prove the crime rate better in NY, and the gun laws stricter in NY, you'd still have to show how one effects the other if at all. There are millions of differences between NY and Charlotte, to many variables, you can't prove that the gun laws variable is the one that effects the crime rate.

I would bet money without researching, that more people are shot in NY then in Charlotte per year.

Last edited by Yac; 03-30-2010 at 07:51 AM..
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Old 03-18-2010, 04:01 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,165,475 times
Reputation: 22373
Quote:
Originally Posted by GO PANTHERS!! View Post
Susan, I feel like you're trying to draw the conclusion that NewYork's crime rate is better based on stricter gun laws...

I'm sorry to say, the link you posted doesn't prove that.

#1 we haven't prove that NY has stricter gun laws, and/or whether or not the difference in the laws effects criminals at all. we've already established that criminals don't follow the law, so how are stricter gun laws going to effect criminals?

#2 we have no idea who put this site together, how the figured the stats, and whether or not we can trust it.

#3 even if we could prove the crime rate better in NY, and the gun laws stricter in NY, you'd still have to show how one effects the other if at all. There are millions of differences between NY and Charlotte, to many variables, you can't prove that the gun laws variable is the one that effects the crime rate.

I would bet money without researching, that more people are shot in NY then in Charlotte per year.
You are right about misleading stats.

And then there are stabbings. It is kind of like looking at UK's stats. You can't just look at their gun laws. You have to look at all the folks who carve people up with knives, too.

Take away guns, miscreants will just use knives, crow bars, whatever. Looking at homicides/attacks makes a lot more sense, frankly. If you could FIND those stats.
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Old 03-18-2010, 05:13 PM
 
11,836 posts, read 25,475,846 times
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Quote:
[SIZE=3]Gun crime is just part of an increasingly lawless environment. From 1991 to 1995, crimes against the person in England’s inner cities increased 91 percent. And in the four years from 1997 to 2001, the rate of violent crime more than doubled. Your chances of being mugged in London are now six times greater than in New York. England’s rates of assault, robbery, and burglary are far higher than America’s, and 53 percent of English burglaries occur while occupants are at home, compared with 13 percent in the U.S., where burglars admit to fearing armed homeowners more than the police.[/SIZE]

The English Crime Disaster and the Nature of the State by Gene Callahan
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Old 03-18-2010, 05:45 PM
 
108 posts, read 85,095 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
You are right about misleading stats.

And then there are stabbings. It is kind of like looking at UK's stats. You can't just look at their gun laws. You have to look at all the folks who carve people up with knives, too.

Take away guns, miscreants will just use knives, crow bars, whatever. Looking at homicides/attacks makes a lot more sense, frankly. If you could FIND those stats.
It is true about the stabbings. It is interesting that eighty percent of the stabbings within London occur in two specific areas of london inhabited by prodominately Caribbean born citizens. I still feel safe walking around London when there. I just stay out of those areas. A huge number of English guys are very much into the redneck thing. They love to drink lager and fight. Big difference in the U.S. We like to plow the girls with lager and try to score.
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Old 03-18-2010, 05:56 PM
 
4,010 posts, read 8,945,114 times
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I'm not so sure. One of the scariest episodes that I ever had on a subway (and I ride them as a hobby) was when I got on a train in West London where I along with two skin head types and an elderly woman were the only occupants of the carriage. As it turns out the two skin head urban punk types had just robbed a store as the loot was dumped out in the middle of the floor and they began to divide it up. By the time I realized the situation it was too late the train had left the station and it was one of the older lines where it just stops for no reason in the middle of the tube. This made the trip longer as we just sat there in this closed up car which wasn't moving.

During this division of their newly acquired goods, one of the skin heads caught the elderly woman looking at them and he jumped up, pulled a knife, and started to physically threaten the poor woman. For some reason they ignored me however I was wearing sun glasses and pretending to ignore them. Fortunately the station was coming up and they realized it was more important to get their loot divided so the harrassment stopped as fast as it started. However I think this was about as scared as I have ever been in a place for my safety.
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Old 03-18-2010, 06:25 PM
 
1,644 posts, read 4,105,604 times
Reputation: 443
Quote:
Originally Posted by GO PANTHERS!! View Post
Susan, I feel like you're trying to draw the conclusion that NewYork's crime rate is better based on stricter gun laws...

I'm sorry to say, the link you posted doesn't prove that.

#1 we haven't prove that NY has stricter gun laws, and/or whether or not the difference in the laws effects criminals at all. we've already established that criminals don't follow the law, so how are stricter gun laws going to effect criminals?

#2 we have no idea who put this site together, how the figured the stats, and whether or not we can trust it.

#3 even if we could prove the crime rate better in NY, and the gun laws stricter in NY, you'd still have to show how one effects the other if at all. There are millions of differences between NY and Charlotte, to many variables, you can't prove that the gun laws variable is the one that effects the crime rate.

I would bet money without researching, that more people are shot in NY then in Charlotte per year.
Would like to start by saying that I did say that they didn't quote their source.

I didn't ,however, say that their was a correlation (and certainly didn't imply causation) between gun laws and gun deaths

The figures are by State. I never mentioned Charlotte.
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Old 03-18-2010, 06:27 PM
 
1,644 posts, read 4,105,604 times
Reputation: 443
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArthurMcAlister View Post
It is true about the stabbings. It is interesting that eighty percent of the stabbings within London occur in two specific areas of london inhabited by prodominately Caribbean born citizens. I still feel safe walking around London when there. I just stay out of those areas. A huge number of English guys are very much into the redneck thing. They love to drink lager and fight. Big difference in the U.S. We like to plow the girls with lager and try to score.
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Old 03-18-2010, 06:30 PM
 
1,644 posts, read 4,105,604 times
Reputation: 443
And?
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Old 03-18-2010, 07:38 PM
 
Location: Charlotte Area
530 posts, read 1,028,938 times
Reputation: 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by susan42 View Post
Would like to start by saying that I did say that they didn't quote their source.

I didn't ,however, say that their was a correlation (and certainly didn't imply causation) between gun laws and gun deaths

The figures are by State. I never mentioned Charlotte.
Susan, please don't take any my responses as un-welcoming to your opinion. I'm happy to hear your side, and I have an opinion of my own... Feel welcome to share your opinion in the discussion.

I felt tension, its not that everyone is against you, it's that most of us have a similar opinion that differs from yours. There are plenty of people out there that feel like you do.. And they are all just as crazy as you are.. LOL.. just kidding

But I see no reason for that post if it wasn't in relation to our current discussion. I think anyone reading here would have drawn the same conclusion I did about your intent.
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