The next low-income housing debate - Ayrsley (Charlotte, Welcome: best neighborhoods, sale)

[Tober138]

Originally Posted by stlterp

First of all, there is a difference between projects and low-income housing.

Having lived in Columbia, MD...I saw how fast the transition went downhill from one to the other.

Originally Posted by stlterp

Second, I think there is a real question about whether it is fair or productive to concentrate low-income housing only in certain sections of the city.

Third, there are already low-income housing authority developments that accept section 8 in and around some of the best areas of the city, including South Park.

True on both counts - but the problem here is that there is no plan for real integration, but, instead, to place one large block of these units in an area where the socio-economic disparity between those to be housed here and the rest of the neighborhood is quite significant. That is the problem here.

Another issue here in Ayrsley is that the development is not even completed yet - and this could have a negative effect on the sale of the remaining lots. I know I would never have even considered buying here if this was a known factor.

I spent my time at lunch papering our section of the community (Ryan), in large part to get people to contact our HOA, who has not stepped up on this at all - likely because our HOA has not yet been turned over to the residents and is being run by SCS out of Columbia, SC. I actually ran into a guy taking pictures of the lot where they are about to start construction on his home. He was not too thrilled by my "welcome to the neighborhood" gift that I handed him, nor the fact that he will have a nice view of this development from his back deck.

Originally Posted by stlterp

As with the Ballantyne case, we're talking about a fairly small number of units here.

The plan is for 90 units. Our section of the development is the largest and we only have about 75-80 units. I believe the total number of homes in Ayrsley (that people own, I'm not counting the two apartment complexes) is around 200, so yes it is a rather large number of units for the area.

May I ask where you live and if you have such a development within two blocks of your house?

Originally Posted by stlterp

However, unlike the specific Ballantyne example, on the surface this one does at least meet some of the logistical criteria - access to public transportation (major line running on Tryon), access to service-industry jobs (Ayrsley and the big strip center w/ Wal-Mart almost across the street, etc) I lived in Ayrsley for a few months, and it is a nice development. It is also located fairly close to some sketchier areas...

The number of service industry jobs right here in Ayrsley is not that large to be perfectly honest. And the big strip center with the Wal-Mart is on the other side of 485; it is not "almost across the street"

It will also be right next door to a Day Care Center (who apparently knew nothing about this until they heard about it from residents of the community here). One of our neighbors owns one of the businesses in Ayrsley - and not a one knew about this plan at all. The CMHP snuck in their last minute notification to residents (I assume they had to notify us) but did not contact a single business in the area.

Originally Posted by stlterp

It is also located fairly close to some sketchier areas...

So that makes it ok. great. Got it.

[Tober138]

Some additional information (which was posted on another chat board - so credit where credit is due to that original poster):

"The developer sold the property to the Charlotte Mecklenburg Housing Partnership (a private nonprofit 501(c)(3) organization) in December. The Ayrsley developer does not still own the property.

The now-owner of the property---CMHP---is seeking permission from the city council to override the existing City Housing Location Policy, which states that assisted multi-family housing is prohibited in a Neighborhood Statistical Area if "the proposed housing development is located within a 1/2 mile (property line to property line) of any existing local, state or federal assisted multi-family housing development greater than 24 units (excluding exempted assisted housing developments)."

Because there is already a low-income apartment community within 1/2 mile of the site where the CMHP wants to put this new housing community, in order to proceed, as I understand it, the CMHP must get a waiver from city council of the above-referenced policy.

Try to think of it like any other private landowner trying to get a waiver of the set-back requirements or requesting a re-zoning for their property. The CMHP is a PRIVATE landowner seeking permission to do something with its property that the housing policy prohibits it from doing."

[stlterp]

In terms of integration, it would be better if an entire development were mixed-income, instead of having the low-income in one large block that is separated. However, that's not the case here.

Having said that, I think that in general, the residents of that "separate block" would have a better opportunity than say, the block were placed next to Boulevard Homes on West Blvd...better environment, better schools, etc.

[Tober138]

Originally Posted by stlterp

In terms of integration, it would be better if an entire development were mixed-income, instead of having the low-income in one large block that is separated. However, that's not the case here.

Having said that, I think that in general, the residents of that "separate block" would have a better opportunity than say, the block were placed next to Boulevard Homes on West Blvd...better environment, better schools, etc.

The availability of housing in Ayrsley is already fairly diverse in terms of income. Houses here range from close to $100k with some topping out around $350k (although I do not see a house going for that much here in the near future). And the two aprtment complexes here have units ranging in price from $675 - $1350 per month. There are a lot of options here already for people at different income levels.

While your second point sounds good, the simple truth is that, while there may be some benefit to some residents, there is also the flip side which are choosing to ignore. This development will lower the overall property values in this community (which have already fallen in the past two years). It will be a deterrent to others looking to buy on the as-yet-undeveloped lots in this community, which will also affect our neighborhood.

In addition, there is a lot of data which shows that the introduction of such complexes into more moderate, middle (or upper) socioeconomic communities does result in an increase in crime and a deterioration of neighborhoods. I saw this happen with my own eyes once before. Columbia, MD initially had a policy in which 5% of the units in all housing development were reserved for "low income housing" - spread throughout a much larger community. It worked fairly well as these residents were not concentrated in a single development, were held to the same HOA rules and regulations as everyone else, and most property managers had any problematic residents evicted fairly quickly.

When sales started declining, some developments opened up more of their units to this option, and one apartment complex was re-habbed and opened up to low income housing 100%. Within a couple of years, the crime rate in the area went up significantly, the local high schools saw an increase in violence / bullying / etc., people saw home values drop (this was in the mid-90's well before the housing bubble burst). In short - a very well run and maintained community went downhill very quickly once a larger section became dedicated to a population whose socio-economic status was significantly lower than the community average and who were living in taxpayer-assisted housing.

I am sorry if I do not come across as all kum-bi-ya and what-not - but I do not want to see that happen in my community here and will do whatever I can to prevent it from happening by trying to block the construction of this development. Plain and simple.

You never did answer my question - where do you live and how would you respond to such a project being built within two blocks of your front door (which is the walking distance frommy front door to this proposed complex)?

[stlterp]

I'm fairly familiar with Columbia, and the entire Rouse Co development there...and some the issues that occured in the community at schools like Oakland Mills, Centennial, etc.

At least you are being straightforward with the rationale for opposing this project - whereas in Ballantyne a lot of it got couched in the language of zoning, lack of transportation, school crowding, etc. I also think that opposition based on proximity to other subsidized arguments (essentially against density of this kind of development), per the CHA rules, is very germane.

I think that my larger point is that if there is going to be "affordable"/gov't subsidized housing, it has to go somewhere. I don't know that certain areas should be immune to it - be it Ballantyne, Myers Park, Uptown or Steele Creek. This is a complicated issue on many levels...

For the record, the city has proposed this kind of development - on a much larger scale - some 800 units - close to my house on the site of what is now low-income senior housing. Not two blocks away, but not that much further, zoned for the same schools, etc. Thus far, the neighborhood association has come out in support...

[lowercountry]

Stltep - just curious; what's your dog in the fight to be so supportive of such efforts? Perhaps I missed it in earlier posts. It seems clear you support it everywhere.

[Tober138]

Unfortunately it looks like we will not have one advantage that they had in Ballantyne. After apparently receiving a flood of e-mails, the lead developer of Ayrsley, Tom Henson, sent out an e-mail stating that he supports this project. In a nutshell, his response stated that he sold the land to the CMHP and went on to say all of these wonderful things about CMHP. He also said something about having his life savings invested in Ayrsley and would never make any decisions that he thought were not in the community's best interest - although in this very lengthy response he never made a single comment about how this would actually benefit the community.

In all, I thought his response was fairly disingenuous - as it is obvious that he sold a piece of property that is at the furthest end of his interests in this development and collected a check. He can say what he will about this being a good decision for Ayrsley - it is not like he lives here and will have to deal with any potential, negative repercussions of this proposed project.

[SunnyKayak]

If the lead developer bought this project so looks like it
is a tough up hill battle. What about making it low income
housing for seniors only. There plenty of options for others
but as baby boomers retire the options for those who retire
on middle class income or less have few options in Charlotte

Originally Posted by Tober138

Unfortunately it looks like we will not have one advantage that they had in Ballantyne. After apparently receiving a flood of e-mails, the lead developer of Ayrsley, Tom Henson, sent out an e-mail stating that he supports this project. In a nutshell, his response stated that he sold the land to the CMHP and went on to say all of these wonderful things about CMHP. He also said something about having his life savings invested in Ayrsley and would never make any decisions that he thought were not in the community's best interest - although in this very lengthy response he never made a single comment about how this would actually benefit the community.

In all, I thought his response was fairly disingenuous - as it is obvious that he sold a piece of property that is at the furthest end of his interests in this development and collected a check. He can say what he will about this being a good decision for Ayrsley - it is not like he lives here and will have to deal with any potential, negative repercussions of this proposed project.

[coastalgirl]

Tober, if that's the case, you could definitely picket the builders even though the land is already sold. We were lucky here and stopped the process before the land was sold to CHP from Pappas, but if the Ayrsley developer already did it, it would at least send him a message. There are so many special funding projects out there today, developers are going for them b/c it's the only way to make money in this economy. It's a shame.

[ProudMom30]

What is the real issue here? Crime, school crowding or just that anyone who needs that type of housing does not deserve to stay in the same area as those who dont? Again not judging just want to know where people stand these days.