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Wahoooooo, the 29th Infrantry Division Memorial Highway (a.k.a. 29 South or Seminole Trail) has had its C-ville bypass revived by some very forward thinking state representatives. Albemarle county residents are mostly in support of this project, IF, it is done correctly with the right considerations from the neighborhoods that will be most affected by the new highway. This is a desperately needed bypass by the Commonwealth to remove the bottleneck of traffic congestion running north/south right through the middle of the state. After attending the "public comment" hearing by the Albemarle County Board of Supervisors, it is clear to me the opposition to the bypass are using non-coherent arguments to stop the project from proceeding.
Example A:
Caveat #1 The bypass will cause air pollution in surrounding neighborhoods and school yards.
Caveat #2 The bypass won't solve the traffic congestion problem since very few vehicles will actually use it.
My comment: ok folks, which is it? Either the bypass WILL solve the problem and divert a lot of traffic and CAUSE air pollution along its path, OR, the bypass will NOT solve the problem of traffic congestion and few vehicles will use it leaving very LITTLE air pollution along its path...!!! [trolls: Please don't comment about the 50/50, 40/60, 60/40 (or variations...) scenario, i.e. 50% usage/50% of pollution moves to new route from Highway 29, since this argument PROVES the bypass will solve the congestion problem by dividing the traffic volume approximately in HALF.
Example B:
The $200 Million price tag is too much for a project that does very little to solve the traffic flow problem (6 miles of new road, bypassing 23 traffic lights) and builds right through existing neighborhoods and close proximity to schools, producing a negative standard-of-living impact on affected areas.
My comment: the Commonwealth of Virginia agreed in principle to fund the top three transportation priorities in exchange for Albemarle County to remove its opposition to the bypass. The County reps also wanted no money to be diverted or reduced from existing approved projects. If the project does not proceed, then the Commonwealth WILL spend the $200 Million elsewhere in the state....it WILL NOT refund those tax dollars to the great citizens of Virginia. It WILL be spent somewhere!! -- Not only do we get a fully-funded bypass, BUT ALSO our top three transportation priorities will be funded also... THIS IS A HUGE GIFT from the Commonwealth of Virginia!!!
Example C:
Not building a bypass will keep the Urban Sprawl in-check and reduce the uncontrolled and undesirable growth of the County and City.
My comment: you can't keep telling people how awesome it is to live in C-ville and Albemarle, and then expect them NOT to MOVE here!!! People are going to move here so long as there are jobs, culture, education and high standard-of-living...really people, what were you expecting?? All this talk of C-ville awesome-ness and then you have to tell the newcomers when they arrive, "oh, we aren't really prepared for people to ACTUALLY move here, we just wanted to brag about how great it is for those already here!!" I sometimes wonder if the local governments of Albemarle and C-ville shouldn't start a new advertising campaign called "Albemarle/Charlottesville SUCKS!!! so PLEASE STAY AWAY...we don't want you moving here..." Would that solve the urban-sprawl?
BTW, there are HUGE residential and commerical developments in process of construction right now all up and down the northern 29 corridor in Albemarle, C-ville and Greene county...urban-sprawl IS HAPPENING and we can no longer stop it...but you can plan for it and build infrastructure to control it!!
Example D:
The proposed bypass will not solve the problem long-term and an extension or completely new road will need to be built further north in a few years time, so this one is a waste of resources. We should look to other solutions.
My comment: the county/state reps HAVE looked at other solutions for 20 years and things have just been slowly getting worse year-after-year, and still we have nothing (we have the Places29 Plan, but it is NOT all inclusive since the Commonwealth VDOT has ultimate control over road building). Shall we wait another 20 years for the perfect solution to come to light? That IS the problem...there IS NO perfect solution. And, it is impossible to build a road system for how things are going to be in 10-years time...no one can read the future. You can't solve a future traffic problem, which doesn't exist yet. You can try to control and channel the problem where you would like it to go/be. The bypass does just that. There, obviously, will need to be another road built in the future... in every location on the planet where people migrate to!!! If people migrate here, there will be more future needs.
Example E:
Building the bypass near my property will ruin my standard-of-living and drop my property value.
My comment: Wow!! For real!! The Commonwealth has owned almost all of the land for the six-mile bypass for 20 (twenty) YEARS and NOW your saying it will hurt?!? I very much empathize with your reality, and I wouldn't be fond of a new highway running close to my neighborhood either, but really, how much time do you need to prepare for this? 20 years, 30 years, 40 years?!?! What will it take? Anyone buying a home next/close to the "state-owned land" labeled on paper as a new major highway, has no ground to stand on. Secondly, if you lived there before the Commonwealth acquired the land, how many years do you seriously need in order to sell your land/home and move away? You've known for 20 years that it could come at any time...
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I can go on, but what I am really trying to say is that things are getting better in the Albemarle-C-ville area in terms of "getting around."
Wahoooooo, the 29th Infrantry Division Memorial Highway (a.k.a. 29 South or Seminole Trail) has had its C-ville bypass revived by some very forward thinking state representatives. Albemarle county residents are mostly in support of this project, IF, it is done correctly with the right considerations from the neighborhoods that will be most affected by the new highway. This is a desperately needed bypass by the Commonwealth to remove the bottleneck of traffic congestion running north/south right through the middle of the state. After attending the "public comment" hearing by the Albemarle County Board of Supervisors, it is clear to me the opposition to the bypass are using non-coherent arguments to stop the project from proceeding.
Example A:
Caveat #1 The bypass will cause air pollution in surrounding neighborhoods and school yards.
~Hate to break it those people. but the pollution is there already. It blankets the whole area no matter what neighborhood you live in. It's like saying it only rains in the bad parts of town. Weak argument.
Caveat #2 The bypass won't solve the traffic congestion problem since very few vehicles will actually use it.
~Any one of the hundreds of cars using RT29 going north or south daily with no intention of stopping here will use the bypass. Just ask any local from Lynchburg, Danville, Culpeper, or DC.
My comment: ok folks, which is it? Either the bypass WILL solve the problem and divert a lot of traffic and CAUSE air pollution along its path, OR, the bypass will NOT solve the problem of traffic congestion and few vehicles will use it leaving very LITTLE air pollution along its path...!!! [trolls: Please don't comment about the 50/50, 40/60, 60/40 (or variations...) scenario, i.e. 50% usage/50% of pollution moves to new route from Highway 29, since this argument PROVES the bypass will solve the congestion problem by dividing the traffic volume approximately in HALF.
Example B:
The $200 Million price tag is too much for a project that does very little to solve the traffic flow problem (6 miles of new road, bypassing 23 traffic lights) and builds right through existing neighborhoods and close proximity to schools, producing a negative standard-of-living impact on affected areas.
~Idk about this one. There are plenty of really nice subdivisions and neighborhoods in this town built right on RT29, RT250 and 250 Bypass. I've never heard any of them complaining about a negative standard of living. I have no comment about the cost. This road should have been built 30 years ago when it would have cost a fraction of the cost now.
My comment: the Commonwealth of Virginia agreed in principle to fund the top three transportation priorities in exchange for Albemarle County to remove its opposition to the bypass. The County reps also wanted no money to be diverted or reduced from existing approved projects. If the project does not proceed, then the Commonwealth WILL spend the $200 Million elsewhere in the state....it WILL NOT refund those tax dollars to the great citizens of Virginia. It WILL be spent somewhere!! -- Not only do we get a fully-funded bypass, BUT ALSO our top three transportation priorities will be funded also... THIS IS A HUGE GIFT from the Commonwealth of Virginia!!!
Example C:
Not building a bypass will keep the Urban Sprawl in-check and reduce the uncontrolled and undesirable growth of the County and City.
~The growth in this area is so lopsided it's ridiculous. Years ago the county ran out the Home Depot who btw bent over backwards to accomodate the areas historical architecture, and then turns around and builds that monstrosity Hollymeade Town Center which is almost 10 miles from the actual city limits of Cville. Everything is built up right on RT29, and now RT250 out on Pantops is getting all built up. If they evenly spread development on all sides of Cville close to the city, traffic would not be quite as bad as it is now. I've never understood how 29 is so overbuilt north of town, but below i64 there is NOTHING. Boggles my mind. You'd think attracting more interstate traffic to shopping would have been more desirable. Oh well. BTW, I know Ruckersville and Greene are the target of places like Hollymeade, but that doesn't justify it to me.
My comment: you can't keep telling people how awesome it is to live in C-ville and Albemarle, and then expect them NOT to MOVE here!!! People are going to move here so long as there are jobs, culture, education and high standard-of-living...really people, what were you expecting?? All this talk of C-ville awesome-ness and then you have to tell the newcomers when they arrive, "oh, we aren't really prepared for people to ACTUALLY move here, we just wanted to brag about how great it is for those already here!!" I sometimes wonder if the local governments of Albemarle and C-ville shouldn't start a new advertising campaign called "Albemarle/Charlottesville SUCKS!!! so PLEASE STAY AWAY...we don't want you moving here..." Would that solve the urban-sprawl?
BTW, there are HUGE residential and commerical developments in process of construction right now all up and down the northern 29 corridor in Albemarle, C-ville and Greene county...urban-sprawl IS HAPPENING and we can no longer stop it...but you can plan for it and build infrastructure to control it!!
Example D:
The proposed bypass will not solve the problem long-term and an extension or completely new road will need to be built further north in a few years time, so this one is a waste of resources. We should look to other solutions.
~Honestly, I tend to agree with this. Basically all the proposed bypass will be is another Hydraulic Rd/Berkmar Dr. Cville needs what Danville and Lynchburg did. A complete 4 lane interstate level highway that takes you completely around the city with no slow downs. Cville needs one from i64 to Ruckersville. But that's in a perfect world. Again, should have been done 30 years ago. That in turn could be linked up to a possible future interstate or turnpike. But I agree, something needs to be done. I'm thinking trolleys up an down RT29/Emmet St in the median.(The crowd gasps in horror!)
My comment: the county/state reps HAVE looked at other solutions for 20 years and things have just been slowly getting worse year-after-year, and still we have nothing (we have the Places29 Plan, but it is NOT all inclusive since the Commonwealth VDOT has ultimate control over road building). Shall we wait another 20 years for the perfect solution to come to light? That IS the problem...there IS NO perfect solution. And, it is impossible to build a road system for how things are going to be in 10-years time...no one can read the future. You can't solve a future traffic problem, which doesn't exist yet. You can try to control and channel the problem where you would like it to go/be. The bypass does just that. There, obviously, will need to be another road built in the future... in every location on the planet where people migrate to!!! If people migrate here, there will be more future needs.
Example E:
Building the bypass near my property will ruin my standard-of-living and drop my property value.
~If anything it might raise property value as it will make living there easier to go about your daily business quicker. In other places, like Staunton, Richmond and I think Danville and Lynchburg, they have erected sound barriers in denser neighborhoods to ease the sound of traffic.
This again is a weak argument to me.
My comment: Wow!! For real!! The Commonwealth has owned almost all of the land for the six-mile bypass for 20 (twenty) YEARS and NOW your saying it will hurt?!? I very much empathize with your reality, and I wouldn't be fond of a new highway running close to my neighborhood either, but really, how much time do you need to prepare for this? 20 years, 30 years, 40 years?!?! What will it take? Anyone buying a home next/close to the "state-owned land" labeled on paper as a new major highway, has no ground to stand on. Secondly, if you lived there before the Commonwealth acquired the land, how many years do you seriously need in order to sell your land/home and move away? You've known for 20 years that it could come at any time...
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I can go on, but what I am really trying to say is that things are getting better in the Albemarle-C-ville area in terms of "getting around."
Well, the bypass is moving forward, but I'm sure we'll see a slew of lawsuits before it is all said and done. I listened to the hearings and I have never heard such ridiculous arguments. One of the funniest things is that those who are against this highway really believe that they are in the majority. There is no one as passionate in this discussion as one who is against construction. The ones who support it generally don't waste their time holding up signs or going to all these hearings. One of the people interviewed later questioned the region's tactics; he suggested that partnering with Lynchburg (and other localities) might have been the better option.
Hindsight is 20/20.
Well, the bypass is moving forward, but I'm sure we'll see a slew of lawsuits before it is all said and done. I listened to the hearings and I have never heard such ridiculous arguments. One of the funniest things is that those who are against this highway really believe that they are in the majority. There is no one as passionate in this discussion as one who is against construction. The ones who support it generally don't waste their time holding up signs or going to all these hearings. One of the people interviewed later questioned the region's tactics; he suggested that partnering with Lynchburg (and other localities) might have been the better option.
Hindsight is 20/20.
Yep. Just because the opposers have the loudest voice doesn't mean they are the majority.
I see on the web that the reality of the bypass is sparking genuine concerns from all areas in Albemarle including,
1. terminus designs including locations and type,
2. runoff into water supply (during and after construction),
3. the outdated nature of the design,
4. reports dated from the 90's concluding a single bypass won't solve traffic congestion,
5. approval was handed off to the Commonwealth before communities could give approval to the design, (related to item 1. above)
6. a completed bypass is an invitation to additional truck traffic and regular vehicle traffic...
There seems to be only two major sources of opposition, Southern Environmental Law Center and the Piedmont Environmental Council, aside from the extremely loud but tiny citizen/non-citizen opposition.
My thoughts...
1. The head of traffic design engineering for the Commonwealth of Virginia visiting a Town Hall meeting in Albemarle County stated that the commonwealth has changed its process for public input in the past decade from requesting input at the 79% design completion to the 19% design completion, giving the localities direct access and input into the earliest possible design phase. (Earlier would be silly because that is the data gathering phase where no real design has begun.) The tiny but loud opposition are saying that the old design is no good and outdated. The reps from the Commonwealth agreed and said a new design would be created with public input, but no one was going to spend any time or budget preparing a new design until the County had approved the idea of building a bypass...now that it has been approved the actual design can begin. There are still two major hurdles, builder selection and federal re-approval of old approved environmental impact study. Bottom line = there will be plenty of opportunity to give input into the placement and type of terminus at both ends of the bypass for those paying attention to the process...my position is that both ends of the bypass should allow traffic to enter and exit the terminus from both directions of the connecting road.
2. I cannot say if this is genuine or not, but certainly logic indicates rain runoff during construction projects can contain undesirable or hazardous materials. After the completion of a 4-lane highway would also reduce the square footage of forest/vegitation available to absorb precipitation and would thus also create a need to route and contain rain runoff (with some obvious cotaminants such as dust from engine oil, dust from tire wear, and so forth). Needless to say, these types of runoff should NOT be allowed into the lake nearby, nor to seep unfiltered/untreated into the ground/water table. I will say I DO NOT and WOULD NOT trust a group of lawyers telling me what is good or bad, since they by definition are not interested in moral codes of conduct but only how they can bend the law to say what they want it to mean. Bottom line = I would very strongly argue for the containment and filtering of precipitation runoff coming from the construction and operation of the bypass.
3. The terminus at both ends was never finalized and approved because the project was put on hold several years ago. That will be resolved with public input per item "1." above so the residents and businesses at both ends will have a say into its design and routing of traffic. However, the true concern here is that the bypass is in the wrong place and/or is too short. Both of these points are real, but because the project was stalled for 40 years (yes, 40, not 25 nor 20, but 40) there IS NO PERFECT place nor distance for the bypass now. Procrastination has only worsened the situation, and further procrastination may have even more dire consequences. The current location and distance is a good start, and WE MUST start somewhere...Like President Obama has said "no action, is not an option" when it comes to infrastructure. Bottom line = invest in our future infrastructure, and, the design will be updated to use the existing right-of-way already owned by the Commonwealth and represents a good starting place for planning long-term growth control.
4. I've read all or parts of some of these studies (there are at least 4) and it seems that nay-sayers have selectively only quoted snippets that support their cause. Tsk, tsk. The reports also indicated that no perfect solution existed and that traffic control would desperately be needed in the coming decades at the then current growth rates of population. I can't say for sure, but it seems like the growth rates might be even higher than expected? (can someone comment on this with data?) Again, ALL reports show that no ONE solution is going to solve the problem but a series of paths will be needed. The bypass is just the second step, really, on the part of the County, since its "first" step was completing the County portion of the Meadowcreek Parkway (which the City has yet to even break ground on their portion...booo Charlottesville!!!) The Meadowcreek Parkway is mostly to allow northern Albemarle traffic into the Albemarle County municipal buildings which are located in Charlottesville. Perhaps the County should relocate all County government offices outside of the city to alleviate the need for road improvements into the city. Bottom line = a series of traffic flow paths around and through the area is going to be needed long-term, with the bypass being another essential cog in the wheel of traffic flow.
5. Yes, this is true for all you paranoid sociopaths out there. Fact check the way Virginia has constructed road projects in the past decade and you will see that a definite shift in early public input is now PART of the PLANNING culture of the traffic division. I am not saying we should all joins hands and chant "kumbaya" around the campfire expecting it will all turn out just the way we wanted it, on the contrary, many compromises and decisions will need to be made, but these choices WILL INCLUDE public considerations in the design and implementation. The choices will also be made by people who live and work in Virginia and are trying to contribute to making Virginia the best place they can. Ronald Reagan said, "trust, but verify." Bottom line = before a true design can be created, the Commonwealth has to have an approved project to expend funds to design it.
6. This one is easy...with the completion of the bypass, there will still be too many traffic lights north of the northern terminus to make trucking through the C-ville area more efficient than continuing to use 81 or 95. The purpose of the bypass is to divert existing truck traffic (as well as car traffic) off of the existing path through the congested area north of C-ville on Rt 29. For the concern about added trucking traffic to be genuine, would require a truck to use Route 33 north of Albemarle either going to or coming from 81 or 95. When 64 provides the same destination (around the congestion), albeit slightly longer, but completely without traffic lights compared to the combo 33/29 North route, it makes no sense for trucking to divert to the bypass unless they are already needing to go through the area. Regional and interstate trucking traffic between northern Virginia to North Carolina would likewise not suddenly divert from 81 or 95 to 29 and go through the 29 C-ville area, simply because a so-called "bypass" exists, since the northern end of the route on 29 is still and will be riddled with traffic lights. Bottom line = even with the bypass, non-localized trucking traffic will still prefer the north/south routes of 81 and 95 and using 64 for east/west movement.
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