How will the childish council react to having their illegal motion declared invalid? First shoe drops.....Link (Jefferson: house, construction)

[bluegumbellamy]

Prince George's county is the largest concentration of black wealth in america. It has a population of around 900K. It's also the second most dangerous area in the DC metro, right behind SE DC. The wealthiest black town in America is more violent then the poorest white town in america. This isn't the proper venue to argue any of these stats, but you decided to bring your national attitude towards my opinions to a local forum, so here it is:

Ahem..
view park-windsor hills, ca (this is the most wealthy black community in the u.s.)
-population: 11,075
-85% black
-median household income: $90,876 (this was from 2000, i couldn't find more recent numbers; nowadays it's definitely above 100k since it is ranked the #1 wealthiest black community)
-violent crime rate (per 1,000 people): 3.3 (u.s. average being 3.7)

cullowhee, nc (this is the poorest white community of comparable size in the u.s.)
-population: 9,428
-89% white
-median household income: $19,688
-violent crime rate (per 1,000 people): 1.9 (u.s. average being 3.7)

just to show that cullowhee isn't some sort of statistical outlier, i'll throw in another wealthy black community, and a couple more poor white ones.

fort washington, md
-population: 23,717
-71% black
-median household income: $105,475
-violent crime rate (per 1,000 people): 4.1 (u.s. average being 3.7)

boone, nc
-population: 17,122
-94% white
-median household income: $20,541
-violent crime rate (per 1,000 people): 2.2 (u.s. average being 3.7)

boone, nc
-population: 23,832
-86% white
-median household income: $17,122 (this number is also from 2000, sorry i was once again unable to find a more recent one :disappointed
-violent crime rate (per 1,000 people): 1.1 (u.s. average being 3.7)

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by bluegumbellamy

Prince George's county is the largest concentration of black wealth in america. It has a population of around 900K. It's also the second most dangerous area in the DC metro, right behind SE DC. The wealthiest black town in America is more violent then the poorest white town in america. This isn't the proper venue to argue any of these stats, but you decided to bring your national attitude towards my opinions to a local forum, so here it is:

Ahem..
view park-windsor hills, ca (this is the most wealthy black community in the u.s.)
-population: 11,075
-85% black
-median household income: $90,876 (this was from 2000, i couldn't find more recent numbers; nowadays it's definitely above 100k since it is ranked the #1 wealthiest black community)
-violent crime rate (per 1,000 people): 3.3 (u.s. average being 3.7)

cullowhee, nc (this is the poorest white community of comparable size in the u.s.)
-population: 9,428
-89% white
-median household income: $19,688
-violent crime rate (per 1,000 people): 1.9 (u.s. average being 3.7)

just to show that cullowhee isn't some sort of statistical outlier, i'll throw in another wealthy black community, and a couple more poor white ones.

fort washington, md
-population: 23,717
-71% black
-median household income: $105,475
-violent crime rate (per 1,000 people): 4.1 (u.s. average being 3.7)

boone, nc
-population: 17,122
-94% white
-median household income: $20,541
-violent crime rate (per 1,000 people): 2.2 (u.s. average being 3.7)

boone, nc
-population: 23,832
-86% white
-median household income: $17,122 (this number is also from 2000, sorry i was once again unable to find a more recent one :disappointed
-violent crime rate (per 1,000 people): 1.1 (u.s. average being 3.7)

And View Park-Windsor Hills still has a lower than average violent crime rate. Something else. That neighborhood is surrounded by much more violent, poorer areas, so that neighborhood itself should be more violent, but it is.

And the other communities that you brought up are out in rural areas. Nice try.

And I know about PG county. I happen to know that said county has alot of criminal elements concentrated around the Beltway region, near the worst parts of DC. Spill over. Kind of hard to have spill over when your community is out in the rural areas, which what Boone,NC is.

But do checkout Portsmouth,OH

Population: 20,326
90% White
Median household income: $27,200
Violent crime rate (per 1,000): 5

You still haven't proven that wealthy Black people are violent. What I can prove is that wealthy, predominantly Black areas are often very close to poor, ghetto areas, therefore, getting the spill over from those areas.

Again, answer my question. What do you want exactly? Just come out and say it. And why did you decide to bring race into this?

[16 Acres]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

Well, the way I see it, Lee is a traitor.

Lee stated that he could not put a Sword to his Homeland of Virginia.

Homeland:

Parents, Grandparents, Brothers, Sisters, Neighbors, Social Friends, Business Friends, Church Friends, Fellow Citizens. People that you grew up with, People that you Loved and Respected and Loved and Respected you.
People who Sacrificed for you.

Could you do it ?

If you somehow fell in that position tomorrow, would you do it ?

Remember, this just isn't a game of chess we're playing here.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by 16 Acres

Lee stated that he could not put a Sword to his Homeland of Virginia.

Homeland:

Parents, Grandparents, Brothers, Sisters, Neighbors, Social Friends, Business Friends, Church Friends, Fellow Citizens. People that you grew up with, People that you Loved and Respected and Loved and Respected you.
People who Sacrificed for you.

Could you do it ?

If you somehow fell in that position tomorrow, would you do it ?

Remember, this just isn't a game of chess we're playing here.

He graduated from West Point. He was a general in the U.S. Army. His first loyalty was suppose to be to the USA, not an enemy combatant. He picked an enemy combatant. I don't care if it was his "beloved Virginia".

If I was in his position, I would pick what is right. And knowing what I know, I would have fought for the Union.

[16 Acres]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

He graduated from West Point. He was a general in the U.S. Army. His first loyalty was suppose to be to the USA, not an enemy combatant. He picked an enemy combatant. I don't care if it was his "beloved Virginia".

If I was in his position, I would pick what is right. And knowing what I know, I would have fought for the Union.

And I'm wondering if you are familiar with Sheridan's Campaign and Hunter's Raid both in Virginia. The two were so mean and hateful stealing, destroying, burning and devastating Virginia that some of their men began turning on them.

If you were in Lee's "position" and fighting for the North, would that all be with your blessings as well ?

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by 16 Acres

And I'm wondering if you are familiar with Sheridan's Campaign and Hunter's Raid both in Virginia. The two were so mean and hateful stealing, destroying, burning and devastating Virginia that some of their men began turning on them.

If you were in Lee's "position" and fighting for the North, would that all be with your blessings as well ?

I'm quite familiar with the stuff done by some Union armies. The truth is, there is no love for the Confederacy from me. I'm glad the Confederacy lost.

[16 Acres]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

I'm quite familiar with the stuff done by some Union armies. The truth is, there is no love for the Confederacy from me. I'm glad the Confederacy lost.

Well, at least we know a little better now why you don't like the statues.

But to me, they are history. I don't like to see any history erased. The ironic thing about it, is if it ever does get erased here in the South, it won't just stop there. There is so much related history of it's kind all throughout the US, more so in the East of course. There is history connected and related to things that people don't even realize yet. Some just want to erase what they want erased. But they are fooling themselves. It won't just stop where they want it to stop. All this reminds me of a video by George Wills. Maybe you've already seen this before, but if so maybe others will see what I'm getting at:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiU20QjKPCo

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by 16 Acres

Well, at least we know a little better now why you don't like the statues.

But to me, they are history. I don't like to see any history erased. The ironic thing about it, is if it ever does get erased here in the South, it won't just stop there. There is so much related history of it's kind all throughout the US, more so in the East of course. There is history connected and related to things that people don't even realize yet. Some just want to erase what they want erased. But they are fooling themselves. It won't just stop where they want it to stop. All this reminds me of a video by George Wills. I will post it as soon as I locate it again.

I'm the type that will let you know where I stand. I don't pull any punches. My reason for my dislike for the Confederacy is not only the traitor side of it. It is also a family history. As someone who has ancestors who were slaves, and known what the Confederate cause was about, I cannot respect the Confederate cause.

Those statues are not just "remember history". They honor something, someone. A statue of Lee honors him and his cause. It honors the Confederate cause. And that is a cause that should never be honored. Why would we honor someone who levied war against the USA, and furthermore, on behalf of a cause that was committed to denying freedom to millions of people?

You can read about the Civil War in books. You can read about Confederate soldiers in books. Remember history and honoring certain people is not the same thing. I look at taking the statues of Confederates down as an understanding that Confederates do not deserve to be honored.

[16 Acres]

Well now I can see more why you feel the way you do. You must believe the whole war was about slavery. I'll say slavery was the biggest issue, but not the biggest reason for the war.

You do know that slavery started in the North way back in the 1600's and did not end till the mid 1800's in some Northern states. The North was a big importer of slaves.

I myself would had been strongly against slavery back then. I would have very much wished it to stop. But I would had fought for the Confederacy because I strongly dis-agreed the way Lincoln was handling it. The violence of invading Virginia in the First Battle of Bull Run was a big mistake in my opinion. Martin Luther King was a man of non-Violence. I liked his thinking a whole lot better.

By the way, did you watch the video?

[2nd trick op]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

Personally, I hate(?) Robert E. Lee, and would love to see Lee's statue taken down. All statues honoring Confederates need to be taken down, period. Confederates are not honorable people, period.

With all due respect, you need to stop accepting "simple answers", on either side, at face value.

In Lee's time, the military (in the form of the much-misunderstood militia) was answerable to the individual states to a far greater degree, Any closer look at Civil War battles will demonstrate that locally-raised regiments, identified with a particular state, were the rule -- and this had the bitter side effect of small communities taking a much heavier blow when a particular regiment suffered heavy casualties.

Lee was not particularly outspoken on slavery or any other political issue; his first loyalty was to his home state of Virginia. Far too much of the incendiary rhetoric came from militants on both sides -- be they Boston intellectuals or rabble-rousers like South Carolina's Edmund Ruffin-- and many of them never served in combat. Lincoln himself took note of this on a number of occasions,

Lee's memoirs of the last days before Appomattox reveal a man fully-cognizant of the loyalty, and the suffering, of those who served under, and with him. and the memoirs of those who came of age in the defeated, impoverished South up until, and often far beyond the turn of the Twentieth Century, served to depict a lingering bitterness, That resentment has been nearly eradicated by measures ranging from the integration of the armed forces to the follow-up in major cities and key industries which, I can attest to from memory, accelerated after the intensified civ rights struggles of 1955-70.

So does pouring salt in old wounds really serve a purpose?