Liberal lesbian couple considering Chattanooga (to live, club, bars)

[atlantagreg30127]

Originally Posted by emcat

I do look gay. I have short hair and am pretty androgynous looking. It is not something that I can or want to hide. I like holding hands in public.
So, any advice from down south? I do expect more discrimination than in Portland, but I want to be realistic about how much to expect.
Thanks!

As smokeymountaingal pointed out, doing a search will produce a ton of results, and we (moderators) recommend folks do searches first for topics like this before posting.

However, I will address a particular quote from above that you made:

I live 1.5 hours South, in Atlanta. Now, Atlanta is a city with a metro population of 5+ million people, and is considered the "gay capital" of the South, with a larger percentage of gay people per capita than many other cities in North America as well. I go to Chattanooga on weekends quite a bit too, to escape the "bum invasion" of downtown Atlanta when I want an urban fix but not the hassles we have here.

That being said, even HERE, there are plenty of areas where you probably would not want to walk around holding hands. Midtown is the "gay area" of Atlanta, and even there you don't see a lot of that, at least during the day. Maybe around Piedmont Park or a few isolated pocket neighborhood areas, but in general, even in "gay capital SouthUSA", you don't see it. Now, this isn't saying that if you did do it here that you'd be shot or anything, but yes, you might get some odd stares, and *maybe* even a comment or two (negative) thrown your way.

The point: If it can't happen in that many places in Atlanta without stares and glares, my guess is that in Chattanooga, the resistance to that would be multiplied by several times to seeing it in public. I've been to Chattanooga a good number of times and I can't remember ever seeing a gay couple holding hands in pubic anywhere there. I've seen plenty of man/man, woman/woman pairs in restaurants and walking around (whether or not they were gay couples or not I'm not sure, but suspect at least a fair number were). But I've never seen public displays of affection there at all.

I doubt people will draw guns on you if they see you holding hands, but then again, it's MUCH more religious/family-oriented there than it is here in Atlanta even, so when the religious folks feel that someone is "flaunting it in their faces", they can be somewhat extreme sometimes.

Ok, this comment is going to be VERY controversial and not at ALL politically correct. Take it for face value though, as just a helpful comment and not in any way anything negative... sometimes, when you move to an area, you have to "assimilate" to a certain level in order to fit in and not stir crap up and create problems with yourself. This doesn't mean to change who you are, change how you think and feel, etc., it just means that when YOU are the new person coming in, sometimes you do have to make adaptations to your own life as opposed to expecting everyone else to just take what you throw out. You can be a woman in Portland in a tanktop, cropped hair, tattoos, and a nose ring, and fit right in with a number of locals. In Chattanooga, that's not at all THAT common to see on the street, and is looked at more as a sideshow than something you see everyday that everyone else ignores.

Southerners are actually as a whole more accepting of different things than some think - but, they do get defensive if they feel someone is coming in trying to throw things in their faces, or come in and change things. So, while you may LIKE to hold hands in public, judge the situation once you're here. If you do it in front of the Aquarium when 8 school bus tours are unloading, you can expect a TON of negativity. Along the river park - not so much. Just realize sometimes you might have to think, "Hmmmm... not the right place", and deal with the limitations of holding back in a smaller Southern city. Respect others and they will you. Make them uncomfortable at the wrong place and time, and trust me, they'll come back at you with pitchforks.

Ok, rant over. My sinus pills kicked in and I got on a roll. Good luck with your move. LOL.

[u4icmusic]

I don't think that was a rant at all. I think it was all correct, honest and fair.

[etta]

Or you could look at it like this:
The more lesbian couples hold hands walking down southern streets the more accustomed some closed minded folks will become. Some folks may sadly never give up there hatred, sexism, racism, homophobia, discrimination et cetera. But cities, neighborhoods & people change. Chattanooga has come a long way & please don't stop getting more awesome!!!

Now you obviously realize how amazing Portland is to the LGBT community. As you suspect living in the south just isn't the same(this is where I like to say YET). Sometimes being anything but "normal" makes you an instant pioneer. I think you would be plenty safe holding hands here thus I would hold hands whenever you want....maybe you'll get a rude stare or glare. But maybe after seeing girls hold hands a few times some folks might get tired of putting forth the negative effort. Perhaps on somedays no one will even notice or care & maybe you'll meet people who are so glad your holding hands.

Originally Posted by atlantagreg30127

I doubt people will draw guns on you if they see you holding hands, but then again, it's MUCH more religious/family-oriented there than it is here in Atlanta even, so when the religious folks feel that someone is "flaunting it in their faces", they can be somewhat extreme sometimes.

Ok, this comment is going to be VERY controversial and not at ALL politically correct. Take it for face value though, as just a helpful comment and not in any way anything negative... sometimes, when you move to an area, you have to "assimilate" to a certain level in order to fit in and not stir crap up and create problems with yourself. This doesn't mean to change who you are, change how you think and feel, etc., it just means that when YOU are the new person coming in, sometimes you do have to make adaptations to your own life as opposed to expecting everyone else to just take what you throw out. You can be a woman in Portland in a tanktop, cropped hair, tattoos, and a nose ring, and fit right in with a number of locals. In Chattanooga, that's not at all THAT common to see on the street, and is looked at more as a sideshow than something you see everyday that everyone else ignores.

Southerners are actually as a whole more accepting of different things than some think - but, they do get defensive if they feel someone is coming in trying to throw things in their faces, or come in and change things. So, while you may LIKE to hold hands in public, judge the situation once you're here. If you do it in front of the Aquarium when 8 school bus tours are unloading, you can expect a TON of negativity. Along the river park - not so much. Just realize sometimes you might have to think, "Hmmmm... not the right place", and deal with the limitations of holding back in a smaller Southern city. Respect others and they will you. Make them uncomfortable at the wrong place and time, and trust me, they'll come back at you with pitchforks.

I highly doubt many people are going to think you look like a sideshow or pull out a pitchfork. Not that the OP even says anything about nose rings or tattoos but I have seen about a million nose rings around here. All types of people have nose rings...sorority girls & religious people included. tattoos are everywhere?!... There is a tattoo arts festival held here annually @ the Choo Choo downtown. At this point it sometimes seems harder to find someone who hasn't gotten a tattoo.
Also, how is someone supposed to know when & where is "the right place" to suddenly not be gay around religious close minded people!!! Same sex hand holding & androgynous fashion does not push a lifestyle or beliefs upon anyone. I would not consider a gay couple holding hands near school buses disrespectful! Gay people shouldn't refrain from being gay in order to be considered respectful. This is ridiculous! Anyone & everyone are allowed to hold hands...I hold hands with friends & family as well as lovers.

[atlantagreg30127]

Originally Posted by etta

I would not consider a gay couple holding hands near school buses disrespectful! Gay people shouldn't refrain from being gay in order to be considered respectful. This is ridiculous! Anyone & everyone are allowed to hold hands...I hold hands with friends & family as well as lovers.

When you are in a known conservative area, where there are children around their very defensive conservative parents, and chances are fairly good that the local security guards and/or police are conservative Southern Baptists - yes, I think common sense should kick in and you should realize when it's time to refrain.

Should anyone and everyone be comfortable holding hands wherever they want? Sure. There's tons more important real problems to worry about than this in the world, and I could care less who holds hands wherever, myself.

But my post earlier highlights the fact that while sometimes it may be fine to be a "pioneer" as you say, there are other times that you need to realize that you are the outsider in a new area, and you need to adjust your ways as opposed to trying to force others to adjust theirs. Otherwise, only negativity will be tossed your way. Hopefully one day every city and town will be such that gay, lesbian, straight, mixed-race couple or "whatever" couples can hold hands up, down, sideways, and wherever -but it's just not that way down in these parts (South) yet. Sometimes you have to hold back. Just my opinion before you throw a burning bra my way.

[etta]

:c rying:

Originally Posted by atlantagreg30127

there are other times that you need to realize that you are the outsider in a new area, and you need to adjust your ways as opposed to trying to force others to adjust theirs. Otherwise, only negativity will be tossed your way. Hopefully one day every city and town will be such that gay, lesbian, straight, mixed-race couple or "whatever" couples can hold hands up, down, sideways, and wherever -but it's just not that way down in these parts (South) yet. Sometimes you have to hold back. Just my opinion before you throw a burning bra my way.

The OP might be considering moving to a new area but what about all the lesbian couples that were born & raised in the south. They're from here!!!! You act like every gay person is an outsider to the area & even if you are new to the area why must you hold back(it's unhealthy...everyone acting alike) Also, I still don't understand how holding hands is "trying to force others to adjust there" ways! How does holding hands or showing affection have any affect on others? I'm glad that you think that one day "gay, lesbian, straight(doesn't seem to be the problem), mixed-race couple or "whatever" couples can hold hands up, down, sideways, and wherever" but how we supposed to get to that day if non straight folks are encouraged to not even hold hands because they might be standing near a conservative baptist. My common sense meter doesn't care what religion you are...just like conservative baptist shouldn't care who is holding hands! k

[ComparedToWhere]

Originally Posted by atlantagreg30127

- yes, I think common sense should kick in and you should realize when it's time to refrain. ....realize that you are the outsider in a new area, and you need to adjust your ways as opposed to trying to force others to adjust theirs. Otherwise, only negativity will be tossed your way.

atlantagreg, could you elaborate on your statement above...are you suggesting "to refrain" and "adjust" due to safety reasons? respect? something else?

To the OP, I was born in Choo-Choo town, raised in Music City (dang, do I know your GF??-lol), and I return to both cities frequently from the left coast with my partner to visit family. Your description of yourself is much like me. FWIW, I could never imagine living in Chattanooga. The religious influence heavily saturates the area (region), which is something that you have not experienced in progressive Portland; it's something hard to explain unless you've experienced (lived) around it. I personally don't want to deal with looks, comments, strangers preaching to me or telling me they'll pray for me, etc. Those with more desire and energy to endure/challenge than I do have my respect, but I personally wouldn't seek such at this point in my life. I guess I did when I was in my 20s, (probably b/c all I knew was life being gay in the South) but having lived in uber progressive areas in CA, there is NO WAY I would go back to my hometown to live. When I (we) lived in TN I was not necessarily unhappy living there, I think mostly due to the fact there was no other comparison. Since then, we've found life is MUCH easier, less complicated, and more diverse elsewhere. Hope this helps and best wishes in your relocation journey.

[u4icmusic]

The option to "refrain" or "adjust" is totally voluntary and up to the individual. Gays and Lesbians are not criminals and have no need to refrain or adjust should they choose not to. This is a free country, but the sword cuts both ways. People are also free to point fingers and criticize you for openly showing affection. Personally, I don't like seeing heterosexual couples openly showing affection, as well as gay men or lesbians. I think all forms of affection are better left at home for everybody, regardless of sexual orientation. I've found the residents of Chattanooga to be very accepting of alternative lifestyles. My partner and I recently moved to E. Brainerd from Fort Lauderdale (a gay mecca) and have had no problems. Most of the neighbors came over and welcomed us here and some even brought gifts, even though it's obvious that we are two men living together. We don't hold hands or kiss outside. We don't fly a rainbow flag on our home or on our cars. I don't think of it as assimilation. It's just nobody's business and shouldn't really be an issue.

[lolou]

Just have to throw in a few quick thoughts on this. I returned to Chatt 2 years ago - went to high school here and then lived in Chicago for years. Chicago is mostly great for gays - power in numbers! My g/f and I have been in Chatt together for about 2 years - I have to say we have never encountered any negative comments here b/c of our "lesbian-ness". I can't say the same for Chicago! People here may pass remarks, but we've never heard them (not that that makes it OK). Granted, we're not very "in your face" but we also don't hide anything. I work for a large insurance company and everyone here knows i'm a lesbian. She works for a school/daycare for (mostly) privileged/Lookout Mtn kids! She has gotten nothing but 100% support from the rest of the staff and every parent she has ever dealt with....and we're talking about some of the more conservative people in town. They all know she's a lesbian and ask about her partner, our recent commitment ceremony, our honeymoon.....they talk to us just like normal people!

My point is this: in my opinion, Chattanooga is a hell of a lot more liberal/open-minded than many people would give it credit for. Considering it's in the middle of the bible belt, I think it's a pretty progressive town. I can count at least 5 pretty obnoxious anti-gay incidents from my 8 years in Chicago. For now, Chattanooga hasn't presented any problems. We occasionally hold hands in public and it's never been an issue. Every once in a while, I might go as far as throwing my arm around my g/f's shoulder in a restaurant - daring, I know. Neither of us has ever noticed any evil stares or anything like that.

Just my take - I think Chattanooga is a pretty good place for lesbians. The only thing we're lacking here is legal rights, but that puts us on par with the rest of the country, unfortunately.

[atlantagreg30127]

Originally Posted by ComparedToWhere

atlantagreg, could you elaborate on your statement above...are you suggesting "to refrain" and "adjust" due to safety reasons? respect? something else?

Mainly respect. If you respect others by not doing anything that makes them uncomfortable around them, they will likewise do the same. If you do something that THEY at least perceive as "in your face", you are more likely to get something negative tossed your way.

Safety I don't think is a huge concern in terms of people being in danger of being physically harmed. I mean, in cities big and small you hear of the occasional gay bashing incidence, but I don't think Chattanooga would be any worse about that than any other city, to be honest. I think the biggest "trouble" a "physically openly affectionate" lesbian couple MIGHT face there would again, be stares or an occasional religious ranting and finger waving from someone.

[atlantagreg30127]

Originally Posted by etta

Also, I still don't understand how holding hands is "trying to force others to adjust there" ways!

It's not, in reality. However, if you are surrounded by conservative religious folks when they do it, THEY will look at it as "trying to be forced" into accepting things. Remember, we're not talking about how the original poster feels about things - we're talking about how the locals in their new home MIGHT look at things. Hey, if two women or two men want to hold hands in public, I personally could care less - I'm just saying that IF two woman or two men are concerned about *any* possibly negativity being aimed at the for doing it, they might just want to use caution in deciding what areas/places to do it in Chattanooga.

Originally Posted by etta

How does holding hands or showing affection have any affect on others?

Again, in reality, it doesn't (or shouldn't). But, you're talking about a certain percentage of people who have from the age of "0" been hauled off to weekly Church services that preach that gays are evil and deviant. To have two people of the same sex holding hands around such people who have since birth been brought up to think this way, is kind of like (to them), dancing little Satan dolls in front of them. Their reactions can potentially be scary, I'll bet.

As someone else posted, you may very well move to Chattanooga and be welcome with open arms, depending on the particular neighborhood and/or jobs you have. As per my original post, I was simply pointing out the facts that there are even places here in Atlanta where gay people restrain open displays of affection, so it's safe to assume that if they do here in some areas, it would be more of a concern in Chattanooga. Enough said.