Riverside v. La Grange (Chicago, Berwyn: renters, violent crime, homes)

[Lookout Kid]

The surrounding area argument made by Chet is an interesting one that could become more important as future trends take hold. There are all kinds of interdependent puzzle pieces in the near western suburbs. For example, Oak Park and River Forest could quickly become an island if things deteriorate further in Berwyn, Elmwood Park, and Galewood. Riverside has the working class Berwyn and North Riverside bordering it, but what does the future hold in Brookfield? All of these towns are small enough that they are interrelated to a strong degree. La Grange has it's strong links to the further west portions of the prosperous BNSF corridor, which I think is a positive thing. La Grange Park is a strong neighboring town to the north. But if Brookfield and Westchester start to slide, La Grange and La Grange Park will sort of be blocked off to the north and west. And Broadview is already a struggling community.

[chet everett]

I know that the executives of Bosch don't really give more than a moments thought to the importance of their huge site in a north part of the near west suburbs, but it should not just be officials of Broadview that does everything they can to keep them happy. Should they ever consolidate with locations in Hoffman Estates, Mt. Prospects, Elgin or Lake Zurich those ares might benefit, but the harm to Broadview and the surrounding areas would be huge... I have met folks in town for meetings at the Broadview facility that rely on hotels in Westchester or even further away, that by itself does not bode well for the potential of changes there. I would love to see some sort of regional effort to make the Bosch facility as important to it's area as McDonalds is to Oak Brook. With a more concerted effort to entice the kind of talent that Bosch needs to its facility, have a better workforce nearby, cooperate on the roadway improvements needed and generally recognize that any company that is not growing is dying the future of that area would be much enhanced...

Suburbs too often allow the real estate firms to look out for their own interests. I am sure there are folks responsible for leasing space in Oak Brook and points further west that call on the Bosch people regularly, trying to entice them to moving into a shiny box. One day the costs and negatives of staying put will win out and the hole that will cause will be all but impossible to recover from...

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

The surrounding area argument made by Chet is an interesting one that could become more important as future trends take hold. There are all kinds of interdependent puzzle pieces in the near western suburbs. For example, Oak Park and River Forest could quickly become an island if things deteriorate further in Berwyn, Elmwood Park, and Galewood. Riverside has the working class Berwyn and North Riverside bordering it, but what does the future hold in Brookfield? All of these towns are small enough that they are interrelated to a strong degree. La Grange has it's strong links to the further west portions of the prosperous BNSF corridor, which I think is a positive thing. La Grange Park is a strong neighboring town to the north. But if Brookfield and Westchester start to slide, La Grange and La Grange Park will sort of be blocked off to the north and west. And Broadview is already a struggling community.

Oak Parkers have every reason to want its neighbors to the north and south to succeed, I agree, though I don't really see the deterioration in Berwyn. I see change but things aren't worse than they were 10 years ago -- and in a lot of cases they're better. And beyond stray and unsubstantiated comments, I haven't heard of it in Galewood or EP either. But even if that were so, Beverly has done fine surrounded by some pretty questionable areas on all sides except to the west, and has a much weaker public high school to boot. So I don't know that this will necessarily translate to a visit from the Grim Reaper of Ghettoville at Village Hall. It might, but probably not.

You'll drive yourself crazy if you fear deterioration (however you're defining this) and start trying to forecast different scenarios, especially if you don't live in the communities you question, which means you have no control whatsoever as to what direction they'll take. And you have no real way of knowing which communities are going to "deteriorate" and which ones are not either, you can only guess. So you just have to decide how much it bothers you. If it's a lot, then go somewhere where you'll be more isolated.

On this score, if I were truly afraid of the deterioration that working class surrounding communities may visit upon me, I'd personally avoid Riverside, Oak Park, Brookfield and La Grange. I'd head to the mid-North Shore (safely away from Evanston and Rogers Park), or into a fully gentrified and very expensive City neighborhood like Lakeview. Pricey, sure, but think of your peace of mind, not to mention unborn children.

[ajolotl]

Yeah, after driving myself crazy for a few months in East Beverly, I completely stopped interpreting every small sign as an indication of encroaching ghettoness or gentrification (either of which is possible in that area -- there are competing forces). If anything changes it will be very slow and I have no control over it in any case. I am much more peaceful now, knowing that I'm not moving anywhere pretty much no matter what happens, and at worse I'd get a mean dog and a good security system on the one hand or do some serious upgrades on the other. I find it very unlikely that it will become like either Englewood or Winnetka. Anything in between is still livable.

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by BRU67

On this score, if I were truly afraid of the deterioration that working class surrounding communities may visit upon me, I'd personally avoid Riverside, Oak Park, Brookfield and La Grange.

Sure, none of us have a crystal ball. But I think La Grange is more isolated from potential trouble spots. I really don't see Brookfield becoming a dangerous place in the coming decades. And Countryside is fine. But it's quite easy to imagine a future where Galewood, Elmwood Park, and Cicero are considerably more dangerous than they are now. The demographic trends don't bode well for these towns as the older generation dies off. Will some huge socioeconomic shift turn this around? It's possible. How many people predicted the mass gentrification of so many city neighborhoods in 1980, for instance? And what about the end of cheap oil? But most people aren't willing to bet on these types of events when current trends point another direction.

I say this as someone who would be perfectly comfortable buying a house in Oak Park or Riverside. If I were to move my family today, I'd most likely move to Oak Park.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

The demographic trends don't bode well for these towns as the older generation dies off. Will some huge socioeconomic shift turn this around? It's possible. How many people predicted the mass gentrification of so many city neighborhoods in 1980, for instance? And what about the end of cheap oil? But most people aren't willing to bet on these types of events when current trends point another direction.

Maybe, maybe not. You'd be suprised at how many Oak Park and north side renters move to Berwyn for their first house. They like the Oak Park area but can't afford the higher prices and high taxes like you may be able to. Times are tough. I don't know if it's that way in Galewood and EP (we don't have many posters on here from there and I don't know anyone directly who lives up there) but that could be the case there too.

And of course there are potentials for socioeconomic shifts. Many of them. What if the next generation of Hispanic yuppies (Fresas) moves back into and utterly transforms Cicero/Berwyn? What if gas goes up to $5.50/gallon? What if some radical State (or Federal) administration completely changes school funding around to the point where living in an area with presently good schools supported by property taxes is no longer as advantageous, or even advantageous at all?

I agree most aren't willing to bet on these things. Heck, I doubt most people even have the inclinations that we do to even try to conceptualize their possibility -- which has led to unpleasant surprises on the part of residents in some cheaper exburbs who are starting to see the same types of people they fled from in formerly working class inner-ring areas, I'm told.

Thus, I go back to my original thought that if one is really worried about it, they'd be wise to consider isolating themselves as much as possible. If you try to predict it you'll drive yourself nuts and if you don't try to predict it, you may find yourself getting run over by the demographic equivalent of a Mack truck! Catch-22 my man.

[pvande55]

Riverside was one of the first master planned communities. Designed by Frederick Law Olmstead, the same one who designed Central Park. It incorporates the "long common." At the time it was more rural and the keeping of livestock was condoned.

[AuDiBelle]

Originally Posted by BRU67

On this score, if I were truly afraid of the deterioration that working class surrounding communities may visit upon me, I'd personally avoid Riverside, Oak Park, Brookfield and La Grange. I'd head to the mid-North Shore (safely away from Evanston and Rogers Park), or into a fully gentrified and very expensive City neighborhood like Lakeview. Pricey, sure, but think of your peace of mind, not to mention unborn children.

There is no way on God's Green Earth that LaGrange is going to 'ghetto-ize'. It's an upscale, very expensive town with really good schools and expensive housing stock right along the BN and it's surrounded by other very nice towns such as LaGrange Park, LaGrange Highlands, and Western Springs. Brookfield isn't quite as up to par, but it's still not "bad". There is absolutely no reason to avoid LaGrange or suggest that someone should. In fact, most people would clamor to move there in a heartbeat if they could afford to.

Riverside, on the other hand, could possibly turn for the worse, although I doubt it will happen any time soon. It's location isn't nearly as nice as LaGrange's. You have Lyons, Berwyn, North Riverside, and Brookfield. Lyons is an armpit, and the crime at NR mall is a major detractor as well. Based solely on location, I'd choose LaGrange over Riverside.

[BRU67]

C'mon, can't you detect that I was being hypothetical and slightly sarcastic there? Look where I live. Obviously, I'm not afraid of "it."

[AuDiBelle]

Originally Posted by BRU67

C'mon, can't you detect that I was being hypothetical and slightly sarcastic there? Look where I live. Obviously, I'm not afraid of "it."

My bad. Mea Culpa.