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Old 10-10-2010, 08:03 PM
 
1,395 posts, read 2,116,000 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allen2323 View Post
Munster is not a suburb of chicago. It is a nice middle class town in northwest indiana. Yes it is right next to lansing which is an actual suburb of chicago. You can not even find munster on the greater chicagoland MLS because they don't consider munster to be a suburb of chicago. I think they know that munster exist, but chicagoland suburbs have to stop somewhere. Northwest indiana town would be the proper description of munster.
So if I were to create a "Northwest Indiana & Chicagoland MLS service" [[which is very very possible]] that listed properties both in Indiana and Illinois, would Munster all of the sudden become a suburb SIMPLY because of this venture??

So since Munster is "not a suburb" that means:

There is NO reason for us to receive Chicago news

There are NO economical dependencies between Munster and Chicago

Munster is not a bedroom community for Chicago (but Lansing is since it is in the same state)

 
Old 10-10-2010, 08:11 PM
 
1,395 posts, read 2,116,000 times
Reputation: 608
Quote:
Originally Posted by allen2323 View Post
Why is northwest indiana a place that needs to recruit residents? As far as munster, the area is already built up. It was cheaper than suburbs of chicago a while ago and now it's really not any cheaper than actual suburbs of chicago. I think the real question now that people ask is why pay all of that money for a home in munster when I can afford a nice suburb now that home values have fallen. And as far as a region, northwest indiana has the worst violent crime problem outside of chicago in METRO chicago.
Metro Chicago (not including NWI) has MILLIONS and MILLIONS of residents...NWI has less than one million.....Gary, E.C. and Hammond together makes up a big percentage of the population...the most violent areas in Illinois do not even put a dent into the metro population...If we were to take the crime stats of the South Suburbs comapred to NWI (which is a MUCH more direct comparison) I guarantee you the numbers would be much similar.

And while Munster is not that much cheaper than Illinois anymore, there is hardly any other suburb in Illinois where someone can find similar housing stock for the same price AND TOP schools and SAFE areas...Munster schools compare more so to the better school districts in Illinois but are MUCH more affordable.

And to answer your question, it is not so much that NWI is trying to recruit residents as much any more so than the south, west, or North suburbs are...But when someone asks for places in the Chicago area to live, I feel it is very valid to bring up NWI as a viable option. Is there a problem with that? Or does the state line mean that "it all ends there" and people should not bother to cross?
 
Old 10-10-2010, 08:12 PM
 
3,599 posts, read 4,654,791 times
Reputation: 2136
Quote:
Originally Posted by allen2323 View Post
Munster is not a suburb of chicago. It is a nice middle class town in northwest indiana. Yes it is right next to lansing which is an actual suburb of chicago. You can not even find munster on the greater chicagoland MLS because they don't consider munster to be a suburb of chicago. I think they know that munster exist, but chicagoland suburbs have to stop somewhere. Northwest indiana town would be the proper description of munster.
Again, your lack of knowledge about the topic is showing allen.

And this thread has gotten ridiculous.

I get that you have pride in your community - and that's to be commended. But for whatever reason, you're not realistic. Time and time again you've been provided with proof that HF is not what it used to be ... and you either ignore it or just out and out deny it.

I don't even know how Munster got into this thread ... and now, for a reason unknown to everyone but you I suppose, you're on this mission to say that NWI isn't considered Chicagoland. Which is so completely and utterly ridiculous ... it's borderline funny.
 
Old 10-10-2010, 08:20 PM
 
Location: Chicago: Beverly, Woodlawn
1,967 posts, read 3,779,813 times
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I tend to think of NWI as the latest hop in the flight of middle and working class whites who once occupied the south side (then the inner burbs, then outer burbs, then NWI). I know it's not entirely true, but so many people I talk to from there who work in Hyde Park have ties to the south side. Thus, I tend to think of it as a suburb of Chicago. 25 years ago a lot of white people who worked around here (Hyde Park) came from Calumet City and other places nearby (given ease of access). Not so anymore. Tons of people pour in from Indiana every day on 94 and the skyway and they work all over.
 
Old 10-10-2010, 08:20 PM
 
Location: Near Chicago
3,108 posts, read 4,930,761 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajolotl View Post
There is no strict definition of a Chicago suburb, so it is a question of opinion and common practice to some degree. I agree that most people include NWI as part of Chicagoland, and it possesses many features that one associates with a suburb. At the same time, there is a barrier in crossing state lines that one notices in how the area is referred to. For example, I live in Hyde Park, where thousands of people from Indiana come to work every day. None of them is known as living in the far southeast suburbs. They are just from Indiana. No one even says where -- just "indiana". No one even knows what cities are in Indiana. This is different from other southeast suburbs (Lansing, Cal City, etc) where people say "I'm from the southern suburbs" and actually say the name of the town.
Not a mind-blowing observation but I see where Allen is coming from.
Agreed!

NW Indiana is plain Indiana to many people. Its part of the metro, but not part of any suburban region( south/southwest suburbs, North shore, west suburbs etc.)
Maybe some of the towns there can be label as suburbs, but Gary? I don't think so. The time Michael Jackson was living till his death everyone and the media always said he's from Gary, not the Chicago suburbs. The census divides Chicago MSA into 3 divisions: Chicago-Naperville-Joliet, Lake County,IL-Kenosha WI, and Gary IN. I think we all know which one NWI belongs to.

Last edited by Chicagoland60426; 10-10-2010 at 08:29 PM..
 
Old 10-10-2010, 08:22 PM
 
1,395 posts, read 2,116,000 times
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If an MLS determines everything..(which I obviously do not agree with)..well then, cities in hundreds of countries must have no suburbs because many countries have no MLS services! (I know Italy is JUST starting to use MLS services...does that mean that all of the sudden there are suburbs now because an MLS recognizes them??)

And I forgot to mention. Washington D.C. is not in Maryland or Virginia...so does this mean that Washington D.C. ONLY has suburbs because an MLS service says so? Of course not. An MLS service is basically a BUSINESS. It does not determine whether a town is a suburb or not.
 
Old 10-10-2010, 08:29 PM
 
829 posts, read 1,137,911 times
Reputation: 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northwest Indiana View Post
Metro Chicago (not including NWI) has MILLIONS and MILLIONS of residents...NWI has less than one million.....Gary, E.C. and Hammond together makes up a big percentage of the population...the most violent areas in Illinois do not even put a dent into the metro population...If we were to take the crime stats of the South Suburbs comapred to NWI (which is a MUCH more direct comparison) I guarantee you the numbers would be much similar.

And while Munster is not that much cheaper than Illinois anymore, there is hardly any other suburb in Illinois where someone can find similar housing stock for the same price AND TOP schools and SAFE areas...Munster schools compare more so to the better school districts in Illinois but are MUCH more affordable.

And to answer your question, it is not so much that NWI is trying to recruit residents as much any more so than the south, west, or North suburbs are...But when someone asks for places in the Chicago area to live, I feel it is very valid to bring up NWI as a viable option. Is there a problem with that? Or does the state line mean that "it all ends there" and people should not bother to cross?
In northwest indiana you are talking about large scale murder numbers. Over 50 murders per year in gary alone. Hammond another 13 murders in 2008, east chicago 17 in 2008. Those three towns alone account for more than four times the number of murders that you have in all of the south suburbs combined.

Last edited by allen2323; 10-10-2010 at 09:04 PM..
 
Old 10-10-2010, 10:26 PM
 
Location: Near Chicago
3,108 posts, read 4,930,761 times
Reputation: 1470
Quote:
Originally Posted by allen2323 View Post
In northwest indiana you are talking about large scale murder numbers. Over 50 murders per year in gary alone. Hammond another 13 murders in 2008, east chicago 17 in 2008. Those three towns alone account for more than four times the number of murders that you have in all of the south suburbs combined.
It depends on what category of crime he's talking about. Lake County, IN without a doubt has a higher murder rate than the south suburbs every year. Murder is the most serious crime, but there are other crimes that are listed as violent crimes such as robbery, rape, and assaults. Harvey surprisingly had more robberies than Gary and E.C. in 2008. We usually don't hear about robberies unless it happened at a bank or someone we know personally. I was a little shocked to find out Harvey had 313 robberies reported in 08 and I live here. Gary in the same year reported 254 robberies. Because of this and ranking very high in other crimes, Harvey crime index was far higher than both Gary and E.C. But since murder recieves the most attention, the average person would consider Gary and maybe EC more dangerous than any south suburban town. Also to mention Gary is nationally known.

Last edited by Chicagoland60426; 10-10-2010 at 11:15 PM..
 
Old 10-11-2010, 11:37 PM
 
Location: Humboldt Park, Chicago
2,352 posts, read 4,938,881 times
Reputation: 780
I work with a guy downtown who drives most days from Munster.

Getting back to topic. HF is a good school but is not what it once was. The same is true of Flossmor and Homewood where white flight has begun.
 
Old 10-12-2010, 12:51 AM
 
829 posts, read 1,137,911 times
Reputation: 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humboldt1 View Post
I work with a guy downtown who drives most days from Munster.

Getting back to topic. HF is a good school but is not what it once was. The same is true of Flossmor and Homewood where white flight has begun.

Median household incomes in the area have gone up nicely. Meaning the residents living in the area have become more affluent. Home prices in the area have been affected more in the housing collapse than most other majority white areas with comparable median household incomes. This goes for flossmoor, olympia fields, matteson, richton park, country club hills, south holland, lansing, and all the other middle class and affluent southern suburbs with large populations of african americans. I think this is do to several factors and none of it has to do with the school. Middle class african americans lost there homes to foreclosure in much greater percentages than middle class whites. Many of these areas had not seen the price increases of the 90's and early 2000's because of white flight during the period in those areas so house prices were already somewhat depressed to begin with. I do feel like upper income african americans will continue to be loyal to the area, so the area will have time to come around into it's own. I don't think it is so much that whites are any longer in flight out of the area, it's more that middle class and affluent african americans are continuing to move to the area in droves. Whites are just trickling in and there is a steady stream of middle class and affluent african americans. To be honest judging one good school next to another good school, it really does depend on the person. Yes, color does matter somewhat in that equation. I will use a little racial coding. HF is definately one the best schools in the chicagoland area for the population of students that it mostly serves. Affluent african americans and liberal whites who don't mind living in the area and sending there kids to school with middle class and affluent african american kids. The school has one of the best advanced placement programs around. Top ranked universities are in a large percentage of these kids futures who graduate from HF. And, many of those kids happen to be african americans going to and excelling at those top ranked universities from homewood-flossmoor. Some test scores may be a point or two lower than it was before but that doesn't kill the reputation of the school because the percentage of african americans going to the school has more than tripled and the test scores have not gone completely down the tank. Standardized test scores are lower for african american and hispanic students on average even among those who are outperforming academically. I know many don't want to hear this but it may be a cultural biase even among academically outperforming african american students. I have never seen data where whites on average have not performed better on the standardized test even among better academically outperforming african american or hispanic students. Majority of academics now acknowledge as a fact that standardized test have in some way an iherirent cultural bias built into them.

Last edited by allen2323; 10-12-2010 at 02:06 AM..
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