Is all the talk of "project teardown displaced residents ruin neighborhood" just discrete racism? (Chicago: section 8, apartments)

[Tex?Il?]

If I had a nickel for everytime I hear of people talking about how the teaing down of projects in the city over the past 10 years ruined nice suburban communities by displacing residents who had nowhere to go, I would seriously be rich.

I mean give me a break. Seriously.

I'm not going to argue with anyones personal experiences, and I'm not saying that some residents didn't move to some suburban communities. But to me, there's something of that rhetoric that smacks of under-the-radar-racism and paranoia. Its like talk of that breeds more talk.

To me it sounds like: People in white working class neighoborhoods see an increase in African Americans in their neighborhood, and start saying things in reflection of that that are not racist: By suggesting that it is displaced project dwellers, people are limiting the "newcomers" to a narrower group, and they are blaming the city government, that way it can't possibly come across as offensive.

People don't realize that:

Huge parts of the city are just as ghetto as the have been for awhile.
With the exception of Cabrini Green, just about all the projects were built in areas that were surrounded by bad areas to begin with. IE: Most of the projects were surrounded by bombed out looking neighborhoods on the south side.

The fact is also that: White working class people, eventually want to live in some upper middle class areas, and when they can afford to do so, they move out, and are going to sell to those with middle class aspirations who want to get out of the ghetto.

It seems to me, that what used to end up in white flight, is now people complaining about supposed (or real) neighborhood/suburb degradation and blaming it on something else.

They have no evidence that the newcomers are former project dwellers at all. They may very well simply be African Americans "moving on up."

The thing is surrounding the former projects (IE: former Robert Taylor Homes) are devastated neighborhoods with all kinds of places for dirt cheap rent in Englewood, etc. Why on earth would they move 15-20 miles, where they are not familiar with the area, and may not be welcome?

I know that some suburban communities yes did take vouchers. But I seriously think this talk has grown way out of proportion of reality.

I'm not trying to start a race thread here. But I'm VERY suspicious if this whole project teardowns displaced residents and are not destroying my formerly nice suburb talk is way overblown.
What do you think?

[urza216]

This is a very good post. It should also be noted that in way out in Iowa city, they are convinced that the few black people who moved in from Chicago are all from the torn down projects. In many south suburbs of Chicago, black people have been a part of the community for a very long time. People are looking for an explanation as to why in the past ten years crime has increased so much.

[Humboldt1]

Ever see an area with an influx of African Americans have crime go down? (Not maintain, actually decrease).

Also, much of the data can be quantified by school test scores and crime stats.

I blame the ghetto culture prevalent among poor blacks not blacks themselves. Fix the culture (starts with the parents) and you heal many of the problems plaguing our society.

Neighborhoods don't fall apart when working people, regardless of race, replace working people (1st wave). They fall apart when non-working people replace working people (2nd and 3rd waves).

[rfr69]

I've lived in several burbs where thsi has happenned and it always results in problems, even if just minor stuff like car breakins, and things like that.

The areas where the people pushed out of the city move to are generally the areas that are considered the one sketchy area of that particular town. If you look at the police blotter maps in the local paper thats also where all of the crime happens.

One example is the apartments over on Bailey and Washington in Naperville. Why is that 711 always getting robbed? Why are there always police blotters about arrests for minor drug things, car breakins, etc? Also look at all the subsidized apartments in Bolingbrook near Lily Cache and I55, how about that area?

Yes most of the people getting forced out of the city into these nicer burbs are black and most of the time it results in problems. It may not be warm and fuzzy and puppy dogs and ice cream to say but it causes crime and its not just some "white people" not wanting black people in their neighborhood.

[subject2change]

There are white people who would automatically complain just for racist reasons, but there's more to it than that. I'm white and lived in a working-class neighborhood that was majority black most of the time that I lived there. Many of my black neighbors complained about the changes that they felt happened after people got forced out of the projects.

[urza216]

Originally Posted by subject2change

There are white people who would automatically complain just for racist reasons, but there's more to it than that. I'm white and lived in a working-class neighborhood that was majority black most of the time that I lived there. Many of my black neighbors complained about the changes that they felt happened after people got forced out of the projects.

Yeah, it's not hard to find white and black people alike in Park Forest or Sauk Village who will tell you about how the neighborhood isn't what it used to be. However, the most dramatic of the bunch is usually white. At least in my observations.

[green_mariner]

Where do the people who live in the projects go to once the projects are torn down? They have to go somewhere.

[allen2323]

I think white people need to stop blaming black people in general for there problems. If a family from the projects moves next door to you then maybe your neighborhood is not as middle class as you thought it was. I never hear white folks in lake forest, glencoe, kenilworth, etc., complaining. Blame your former white neighbor who sold his house so cheap or who lost his home in foreclosure. Or blame the new landlord who in most cases is white who is renting it out to section 8 former project residents. I am black and live in a nice affluent community that has a majority black population and this type of thing has never happened to me so it isn't black folks in general.

And a bit off subject, but america created this huge underclass within the black community and now america has to suffer with it until more blacks pull themselves out of poverty. With a history of slavery, racial segregation, lacking the right to vote, blacks being taken advantage of economically for so long, and violent racism. The black underclass has greatly shrunk in size over the past 40 years, but it will probably take another 40 years to see anything close to economic equality among the races. Most blacks including middle class blacks and affluent blacks have been on food stamps themselves at atleast one point in there lives, myself included when I was really young. My father grew up in the stateway garden projects. Most adult blacks including the now middle class and affluent ones are not that far removed from an impoverished past and feel no reason to apologize for anything.

[Humboldt1]

I used to rent to a black family in Humboldt Park that complained to me about Austin becoming too ghetto black a few years back. They preferred Humboldt Park to Austin for this reason. This family was fairly ghetto as well, but preferred not being around people who were even more ghetto than they were.

I think this is the case, regardless of race. People do not want to be around ghetto people. Many ghetto people also feel this way.

[Tex?Il?]

Originally Posted by allen2323

I think white people need to stop blaming black people in general for there problems. If a family from the projects moves next door to you then maybe your neighborhood is not as middle class as you thought it was. I never hear white folks in lake forest, glencoe, kenilworth, etc., complaining. Blame your former white neighbor who sold his house so cheap or who lost his home in foreclosure. Or blame the new landlord who in most cases is white who is renting it out to section 8 former project residents. I am black and live in a nice affluent community that has a majority black population and this type of thing has never happened to me so it isn't black folks in general.

And a bit off subject, but america created this huge underclass within the black community and now america has to suffer with it until more blacks pull themselves out of poverty. With a history of slavery, racial segregation, lacking the right to vote, blacks being taken advantage of economically for so long, and violent racism. The black underclass has greatly shrunk in size over the past 40 years, but it will probably take another 40 years to see anything close to economic equality among the races. Most blacks including middle class blacks and affluent blacks have been on food stamps themselves at atleast one point in there lives, myself included when I was really young. My father grew up in the stateway garden projects. Most adult blacks including the now middle class and affluent ones are not that far removed from an impoverished past and feel no reason to apologize for anything.

Good point. This was what I was getting at for the most part. I live in Oak Park, and I find it fascinating about the history as to how Oak Park is so different from neighboring communities.

Oak Park was a conservative, alcohol-banning, WASP, "wide lawns and narrow minds" community, whereas north of North Ave., and south of Roosevelt were white-ethnic, catholic (Polish, Italian, Czech, etc.) communities that were mroe resistant to integration. Maybe Oak Park realized with their much higher quality housing stock, and other cultural amenities were less insecure about their community going downhill and therefore were more welcoming. Fastforward to today, Oak Park is a polished gem, and Cicero which was a "white backlash, mafia-run" community is rather undesirable. It is interesting.