How does IL fund the schools - big ? re: Downers Grove? (Naperville: for sale, hair salon)
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How does IL fund the schools - big ? re: Downers Grove?
So my husband and I noticed that one of the Downers Grove school (Pierce) really out performed another (Whittier) by 10-15 points (very significant). I noticed that the houses around the Pierce school are 1+million. The ones for sale near Whittier are 5-600,000. I called Whittier and asked if they could explain the difference (maybe large hispanic non-english speaking population). She told me, "huh.... it's the demographics.....it is not for me to say" When she rudely asked me if I want the principal to call me back, I said that I had enough info.
Here is Wisconsin, our tax $ get spread based on need. I live in a wealthy county, Waukesha, and only about 25% of our property tax actually goes to our own district. How does it work in IL? I also noticed that in Naperville, the best elementary school also has the million dollar homes too. Hmmm.
With more expensive homes comes higher property taxes and in turn, better schools. For the most part all the best schools are also in the "higher up" areas. Schools for the most part is the biggest chunk taken on your property taxes and funds only the district you are living in.
Thanks, that is what we thougt as we have been doing more research. Like I said, here in WI, your property taxes go all over (mostly Milwaukee Public School district).
So my husband and I noticed that one of the Downers Grove school (Pierce) really out performed another (Whittier) by 10-15 points (very significant). I noticed that the houses around the Pierce school are 1+million. The ones for sale near Whittier are 5-600,000. I called Whittier and asked if they could explain the difference (maybe large hispanic non-english speaking population). She told me, "huh.... it's the demographics.....it is not for me to say" When she rudely asked me if I want the principal to call me back, I said that I had enough info.
Here is Wisconsin, our tax $ get spread based on need. I live in a wealthy county, Waukesha, and only about 25% of our property tax actually goes to our own district. How does it work in IL? I also noticed that in Naperville, the best elementary school also has the million dollar homes too. Hmmm.
Illinois relies primarily on property taxes to fund education, unlike other states, and unlike the system that our state constitution calls for. In fact, Illinois is the most reliant state in the Union on property taxes to fund education.
So there are huge differences in spending per pupil across districts. Districts with lower property values take in less money in property tax revenue, so they spend less on education. Ironically though, the students in the lower property value districts need the most resources to educate. We're kind of bass ackwards on this, and we have pretty stark differences in school district test scores here.
The upside, of course, is that kids in higher income school districts are getting a world class education. The downside, however, is that kids in lower income school districts are not getting the tools they need to compete in the modern economy, which will ultimately lead to job losses, increased crime and social ills, and brain drain in the state if it is not addressed.
The upside, of course, is that kids in higher income school districts are getting a world class education. The downside, however, is that kids in lower income school districts are not getting the tools they need to compete in the modern economy, which will ultimately lead to job losses, increased crime and social ills, and brain drain in the state if it is not addressed.
Yet you can be sure that if someone from Dalton says they need more money to properly educate their kids, someone from Winnetka will say "We don't need to throw money at the problem," as they drive their kids to New Trier...
Yet you can be sure that if someone from Dalton says they need more money to properly educate their kids, someone from Winnetka will say "We don't need to throw money at the problem," as they drive their kids to New Trier...
Yea, they'll say it won't work because these darn kids weren't raised with the same values they were, the parents in those areas just use the school as a day care center while they drive to McDonalds and the hair salon in their new SUV, blah blah blah.
There is some ring of truth to the extent that money alone won't solve the problem. Most districts try to teach at-risk kids in the same way as white, upper middle class kids -- through the most underpaid and inexperienced teachers of course. We still use the summers-off system for God sake. That dates back to the days when kids needed that time to go work in the fields! I mean, how many freakin' farms do we have in Roseland, for you-know-what's sake??
We should have early kindergarten, school year round, longer school days, bording schools for really at-risk kids, the most qualified teachers teaching the most challenged students, etc. in communities with concentrations of at-risk children. Problem is, this stuff costs money, and no one seems to have any desire to spend it in this state, especially those who are happy with their systems (and who paid dearly for them when they bought their home) and isolated from the problems of the underperforming ones.
The way I understand taxes is this. In addition to RE taxes the schools also receive state and federal funding so each child receives X dollars for their yearly education. It breaks down differently in every school district. Some schools receive nearly 100% sate and federal funds while others receive very little. My personal feeling is the children who get the best education - regardless of the school - have parents who are very involved with teacher conferences, the school principals, the school administrators and their respective school board members.
Wrong question and "answers" above are worse than useless...
The fact is that the way that PER PUPIL SPENDING IS ALLOCATED inside any district is Illinois is All but impossible to say it is "unequal". In fact, both Pierce and Whittier are part part of District 58, which serves kids from parts of Oak Brook as well as Downers Grove. The expenditures of over $11,865 per student is well into the "very well funded" category. There is absolutely no pattern of targeting "revenue from residential area" to match the relative intradistrict distribution of expenditures or achievement. The kids from Ginger Creek and Saddle Brook in Oak Brook are assigned to the Belle Aire attendance area. Along with Pierce and Highland these are serve predominately single family detached residential area yet in comparing the performance to even the part of town with the most multi-family / rental intensive attendance area there is only a modest ten point variation. Btw I personally have sold quite a few houses near Pierce and the current listings are mostly overpriced tear downs that are not reflective of what the market will bear. Believe me, most people with $1M+ to spend will be looking in other towns...
The real question SHOULD be: do schools in District 58 show consistent year over year "adequate progress" and the resounding answer is YES -- this is achieved in schools that do have a fairly nice mix of kids of various backgrounds, both racially and economically, as well a substantial number of kids with special needs. (the one exception is Herrick Middle School, a situation that is being addressed by the staff in a serious manner..)
I would also caution that attempting to draw conclusions from simple maps of available real estate listings, without knowing how the attendance areas are set or how the district may make efforts to have open enrollment, adjust boundaries or make other allowances to maintain balance will lead to lots of unproductive speculation.
Finally, in my experience the vast majority of public sector employees in every state I have had to deal with really could benefit from some "how to answers questions from the public" training. I suspect that most are capable of giving cogent information in a polite way, but too many are "schooled" in the ways of evasion that accompanies the legalistic "Freedom of Information" request process that lawmakers hide behind...
I spoke at length with the State of Illinois about tax monies and schools, etc. What I posted above is what I was told. My children are adults, therefore I have little interest in the subject, but I do pay real estate taxes.
No offense linicx, but when you talk "to the State of Illinois" ...
...you get the same crappy answers as when you call a Drivers Services facility, or any other less than responsive public office.
The State of Illinois has formulas to send moneys to DISTRICTS based onnthe DEMOGRAPHICS of the STUDENTS that are served AND THE ABILITY OF districts to steer funds their way.
They DO NOT supply anywhere near 100% of the monies spent in any districts. In fact in districts with non-disadvantaged student population and no "clout" in Springfield it is common for local property taxes to comprise far more that 90% of the funds spent in the school.
I would disagree that you should have little interest just because your kids are not is school. As you state, you do pay taxes, and in pretty much ever corner of Illinois a HUGE amount of those taxes are going to schools -- are getting any thing for those taxes? Is the WORKFORCE and ELECTORATE of Illinois such that they attract good jobs and choose wise politicians????
Maybe if more people understood how important education and the taxes that support thar are to the sustainability of the value of their home they would do a better job of learning how things work...
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