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Old 01-16-2011, 10:32 AM
 
25 posts, read 57,747 times
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We're looking to buy our first house, and looking outside of the city, mostly because of schools. Our price range is $200,000, and there seems to be a lot of nice single family homes in EP in that range.

I'm reading some threads on this site about how that town is headed for the abyss. We're a couple in our mid-30's who has lived in Logan Square for 10 years, which isn't exactly Mayberry, so we're used to some shadiness. Would we be crazy to move to Elmwood Park? If so, could you recommend nearby areas in that price range?
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Old 01-16-2011, 11:38 AM
 
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Elmwood Park is still pretty stable. It was always blue collar and middle class. Schools are fine, though not at the level of other suburbs, but also not horrible either. It has become more Hispanic, though it isn't crime ridden like some describe. It is convenient to the city and still urban.

Look around the neighborhood before you buy. Then you can decide if your neighbors will be acceptable to you.
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Old 01-16-2011, 02:07 PM
 
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Default Fine? Some folks have very different standards...

The scores for CUSD 401 which serve Elmwood Park are among the lowest for any majority white school district bordering Chicago. Further give the trend the scores will only be declining.

The major trend that older inner ring suburns is fighting against is the lack of good paying employment -- I don't see that reversing anytime soon.

If you instead shop a bit further west you have some better options in a towns like Brookfield -- 4012 Deyo Ave, Brookfield, IL 60513 MLS# 07514037 - Zillow

Maybe Oak Lawn -- 9310 S 50th Ave, Oak Lawn, IL 60453 MLS# 06957901 - Zillow

Or even Elmhurst -- 1334 Hamilton Ave, Elmhurst, IL 60126 MLS# 07660157 - Zillow

Those towns all have much better schools and the proximity to excellent hospitals gives them a nice angle that tends to lead to good paying jobs-- even med techs and nurses like to have a shorter commute for their off hours travel, and that makes long term desirability of local employment good. Each also attract a lot of folks that use Metra to commute to Loop.
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Old 01-16-2011, 09:17 PM
 
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Elmwood Park is a stable town which is not seriously affected by crime as exagerated by some on this forum. It has become somewhat more hispanic of late, like many areas throughout the US. I personally like the location, as it is near the city and has ample public transportation.

As noted, the schools are not at the level of some other suburbs, yet are superior to CPS schools in nearby Chicago neighborhoods.

Many of the residents send their children to the numerous private schools nearby (St Celestine's, St. Vincent's, Mother Guerin, St. Pats, Fenwick, and others).
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Old 01-16-2011, 10:41 PM
 
Location: Chicago, Tri-Taylor
5,014 posts, read 9,386,985 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett View Post
The scores for CUSD 401 which serve Elmwood Park are among the lowest for any majority white school district bordering Chicago. Further give the trend the scores will only be declining.

The major trend that older inner ring suburns is fighting against is the lack of good paying employment -- I don't see that reversing anytime soon.

[P]roximity to excellent hospitals gives . . . a nice angle that tends to lead to good paying jobs-- even med techs and nurses like to have a shorter commute for their off hours travel, and that makes long term desirability of local employment good. Each also attract a lot of folks that use Metra to commute to Loop.
Elmwood Park has quick access to the State's largest job base (the Loop) via the Metra. As to hospitals, there is Gottleib right next to EP in Melrose Park, as well as West Suburban and Loyola in Oak Park, MacNeal in Berwyn, and Loyola and Hines in Maywood. You could practically hit all of these hospitals with a rock from EP.

Many inner ring suburbs have issues with their school systems, including EP. I'll give you that. But I don't see a lack of good paying employment hurting the near west inner ring suburbs, due to the many job opportunities in the Loop and surrounding communities.

In Oak Park, the average worker commutes 30.8 minutes to work per the 2009 ACS data. In Elmwood Park, it is 29.4 minutes. In Naperville, it's 33.6 minutes. I think that data shows that these days, the vast majority of residents of Chicagoland suburbs work outside their suburbs and commute to work. So access to the job bases is the key. I don't think EP is too bad on this score.
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Old 01-16-2011, 11:04 PM
 
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Thanks for your input. Chet, can you give me a link for rankings of Chicago area schools? We know the schools in EP aren't going to be Naperville quality, but better than CPS. Do any of you give EP a fighting chance of becoming a city commuter suburb, and not relying so much on job market in immediate area?

If we went a little further out, would you recommend any of these: River Grove, Franklin Park, Addison? We're looking at Elmhurst and Brookfield. Oak Lawn is nice, but further south than we'd like to go. We've seen a lot of pretty houses in Berwyn, is it pretty bad down there or alright?
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Old 01-16-2011, 11:05 PM
 
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Default Are you serious?

The demographics of the Oak Park workforce is quite a bit different than other close in burbs -- the reason has a lot to do with schools and jobs too. Back before Chicago required city workers to live inside the city EP was favorite alternative, but over the years the people "grandfathered in" have all retired or died. They never really took education all that seriously because with clout it didn't mater if you lessened anything in school. As the alternatives for folks without a good education got slimmer and slimmer EP's crummy schools represent a worse and worse trade off. Blue color types just do not appeal to professional office types. Shot and a beer EP is not like white ine Oak Park. Nothing. While OP's "housing advocates" were steering racial diversity EP was a bastion of homogenous near segregrarion...
Why would some wanna drive considerably further to a crummier town from a good job at Loyola if they could do better Brookfield?

Gotltlieb? No comparison to Looyola -- teaching hospitals have better work environments as well as much more attractive perks for staff with families, not the least of which is tuition
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Old 01-17-2011, 09:00 AM
 
263 posts, read 563,466 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CityToBurbs75 View Post
Thanks for your input. Chet, can you give me a link for rankings of Chicago area schools? We know the schools in EP aren't going to be Naperville quality, but better than CPS. Do any of you give EP a fighting chance of becoming a city commuter suburb, and not relying so much on job market in immediate area?

If we went a little further out, would you recommend any of these: River Grove, Franklin Park, Addison? We're looking at Elmhurst and Brookfield. Oak Lawn is nice, but further south than we'd like to go. We've seen a lot of pretty houses in Berwyn, is it pretty bad down there or alright?
The Metra ride from the Elmwood Park stop to Union Station is approximately 25 mintues. I know many people who work downtown and take Metra to work everyday. Elmwood Park's proximity and ease of access to the city make its location a plus to many.

In response to your second paragraph:

River Grove is adjacent to Elmwood Park, has lower property values, no superiority as far as schools), and offers nothing that cannot be found in Elmwood Park. Franklin Park can be characterized much the same way as River Grove, except that it is much more industrial. Franklin Park has more of a "downtown" than River Grove.

Addison, Elmhurst, Brookfield, and Oak Lawn are more indicative of what is commonly defined as suburban, but are in a different "world" than EP.
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Old 01-17-2011, 10:24 AM
 
28,455 posts, read 84,914,994 times
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Default For towns that I would put on the "recommend" list for schools I rely on the US News groupings...

The rankings from US News put schools like Payton Na Northside in the "gold" category, which is to be expected as 100% of the students have tested in for admission, unfortunately there just are not slots for all the talented kids in Chicago so it is not a real good path for most folks.

The schools in the "silver" category include perennial high performers like New Trier, Naperville North, Hinsdale Central, Stevenson, Maine South and others from desirable sections of the burbs. If you can get a home in these towns it is worth it.

The next category down, bronze, is trickier, some towns are on on the upswing, but many have issues that will not be overcome.

Honorable mention schools are even a worse mixed bag.

For elementary schools my recommendation is to "track back" from the recommended US News groupings and use the in for from the comprehensive listings as presented by the Illinois Interactive Report Cards-- NIU hosts the site. I recommend trying to find districts that have uniformly high performance, but the reality is that is both difficult and rare. The difficulty comes from the fact that "baked into" the standards for No Child Left Behind are several concepts -- students should continually improve, all groups of students should perform well / make progress, the district should not be spending more than it can afford, etc... The test does not tell districts how to achieve these results, and experience shows that it is very difficult to meet al these standards, but that is what is out there...

EP is far from the most horrible suburb in the region, it is just that I having seen towns change over the decades I would not be keen on investing my hard earned money in a town that will almost certainly continue to decline. The. Lack of architectural charm by itself would be enough to have me looking elsewhere, combined with good deals in other nearby towns it really does nit strike me as worth the risk. The other towns I put links to , for homes in the same price range, are a much better bet ...
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Old 01-17-2011, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Chicago, Tri-Taylor
5,014 posts, read 9,386,985 times
Reputation: 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett View Post
The demographics of the Oak Park workforce is quite a bit different than other close in burbs -- the reason has a lot to do with schools and jobs too. Back before Chicago required city workers to live inside the city EP was favorite alternative, but over the years the people "grandfathered in" have all retired or died. They never really took education all that seriously because with clout it didn't mater if you lessened anything in school. As the alternatives for folks without a good education got slimmer and slimmer EP's crummy schools represent a worse and worse trade off. Blue color types just do not appeal to professional office types. Shot and a beer EP is not like white ine Oak Park. Nothing. While OP's "housing advocates" were steering racial diversity EP was a bastion of homogenous near segregrarion...
Why would some wanna drive considerably further to a crummier town from a good job at Loyola if they could do better Brookfield?

Gotltlieb? No comparison to Looyola -- teaching hospitals have better work environments as well as much more attractive perks for staff with families, not the least of which is tuition
Yet their average commute times are similar. And we can argue Gottleib v. Loyola all day long but that would be pointless because it would obscure the real issue. The truth is that the commute to Loyola (and all those other hospitals I referenced) from Elmwood Park is well under the region's average commuting time. We could probably throw Hinsdale Hospital in there too. No one is saying, "man, I have to commute to Loyola. Let's pay $50,000 more so we can live 10 minutes closer in Brookfield!"

It is the schools that are the issue in many inner-ring communities, including EP by the sound of it. I definitely agree with your point that the blue collar inner ring 'burbs, as a whole, did not put the focus that they should have on education. That effectively prevented the large scale replacement of aging working class populations with educated professional class workers in most of our closest suburbs, and led to sprawl.

I do not think it's a matter of blue collar types not appealing to professional office types. Professionals are attracted to formerly blue collar suburbs, and they do move there. I have seen it first hand. Keeping them, however, is another matter because of schools. To truly bloom, an inner-ring suburb is going to have to fix its schools. Those who can will easily prosper.

But I think this is an entirely different argument than saying the job base near EP is drying up like some played out steel town in Lehigh Valley, which no amount of school reform would fix. The jobs are there, which will make the community appealing to some quality residents. It's a matter of capturing enough of them to create the momentum necessary for better schools. This is something we should be encouraging, not discouraging.
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