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Old 11-07-2011, 07:57 PM
 
Location: South Chicagoland
4,111 posts, read 7,351,225 times
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The problem is that perfect diversity doesn't exist, anywhere. It doesn't have to have every

Quote:
Originally Posted by linicx View Post
race, cultures, histories, religions, educaitons, languages, opinions, foods, lifestyles
to be diverse.
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Old 11-07-2011, 09:18 PM
 
2,088 posts, read 4,235,232 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urza216 View Post
Tex, I have to say that I completely disagree with your assessment. Naperville is in Dupage County - the Republican stronghold in Illinois. Say what you want about the "South Side Irish" but come on now.. Southern Cook County is moderately socially liberal on both sides of I-57. Naperville and Wheaton and the like are where the Republican party goes to feel welcomed in Chicagoland.

Have you dined or shopped in Orland or Tinley? In my experience, it's very different than downtown Naperville. In Orland or Tinley, it's hard to go anywhere without seeing at least a few minorities (and by "minorities" in this statement, I mean black people). When I was going to Naperville every month or two, I hardly ever saw any black people ANYWHERE in any of the crowds.. The massive overwhelmingly white setting wasn't something I was used to. It's not like that around Orland Square or at sit down restaurants in Tinley Park. If you think that only white people shop at Trader Joes, maybe you've only been to the one in Naperville and not Orland.

...And why is this? You say there are diverse suburbs around Naperville BUT I don't see any minorities anywhere in the crowd. Not a single face. Not one. Why? You see em all over the place in Orland but not Naperville.. Why? Could it be that one is more welcoming to minorities that live in nearby towns than the other? AT LEAST in the commercial district?

Personally, I think it's like what that one crazy racist dude was saying.. People in Naperville just don't have much experience with black people. To them, they see a middle aged black man in a fleece coat and it somehow reminds them of a rapper on MTV. Naperville hasn't been put to the test. I bet you if there was a significant influx in Naperville's black population, you would see those Republicans running all the way to Dekalb quicker than you can say "John McCain".



It's definitely not like that in Orland, Palos or Tinley.

And by the way, in case you weren't already aware, I'm not from the southwest suburbs. I've lived in the south suburbs EAST of I-57 for my whole life..
In my opinion, I honestly think that the presence of Blacks in Tinley/Orland is more so due to proximity to predominantly Black areas more-so than it being "more welcoming".


I have been to downtown Naperville a few times. Yes, I was one of the few Black individuals there, but I never felt like I was being watched or anything. The areas surrounding Naperville (with the exception of parts of Bolingbrook) are overhwelmingly White, then a mix of Hispanic and various Asian cultures. But overall, I felt comfortable in that I didn't feel like I was being discriminated against.

Orland on the other hand is a different story. I am always in the Orland area because the retail in that area is better than what we have in NWI and pretty close. But while the Black population is much more visible in Orland, it doesn't mean that it is necessarily welcome. Especially as of recently, there is a growing sentiment in the area that Blacks are "finally discovering/affording" Orland in larger numbers and that it will become "another Cal City"....people have said things like "why don't THEY go to the Olive Garden/Mall/Movies in Cal City?"...I have been stared at a few times too...do I think Orland will go downhill anytime soon? No...But many others feel threatened by the growing presence of Blacks and African-Americans in Orland. The recent parking lot robbery at the mall (by a Black woman to a White woman) was not treated as just any act of violence. It was treated as "THE BLACKS ARE COMING! THE BLACKS ARE COMING!". Sad, yes. But this was how it was looked at based on hundreds of posts on the news sites, Facebook, etc.

Many Southsiders and those in the southwest suburbs felt "pushed out" by Blacks and have always lived in somewhat close proximity to a Black population. White flight seems to be the most visible in the southwest/south suburbs. This is why even though some suburbs east and west of 57 are just as affordable as one another, they are still very segregated.

In the southwest suburbs, it seems like the overall attitudes towards Blacks accounts for the lack of a Black presence (as far as residency goes).

When you look at the north/northwest suburbs, it seems like the overall price of areas accounts for the lack of Black presence which is why when someone has an experience with a middle aged black man, they may assume that "they are a rapper or something if they can afford the area"....in the southwest burbs, they may be seen as "they must have got a great deal on a foreclosure, now here goes the neighborhood"

In case it isn't clear to other posters, the thoughts above are just my opinions on the whole situation, not my actual regards of any race.
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Old 11-07-2011, 10:03 PM
 
1,096 posts, read 3,985,421 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northwest Indiana View Post
In my opinion, I honestly think that the presence of Blacks in Tinley/Orland is more so due to proximity to predominantly Black areas more-so than it being "more welcoming".


I have been to downtown Naperville a few times. Yes, I was one of the few Black individuals there, but I never felt like I was being watched or anything. The areas surrounding Naperville (with the exception of parts of Bolingbrook) are overhwelmingly White, then a mix of Hispanic and various Asian cultures. But overall, I felt comfortable in that I didn't feel like I was being discriminated against.

Orland on the other hand is a different story. I am always in the Orland area because the retail in that area is better than what we have in NWI and pretty close. But while the Black population is much more visible in Orland, it doesn't mean that it is necessarily welcome. Especially as of recently, there is a growing sentiment in the area that Blacks are "finally discovering/affording" Orland in larger numbers and that it will become "another Cal City"....people have said things like "why don't THEY go to the Olive Garden/Mall/Movies in Cal City?"...I have been stared at a few times too...do I think Orland will go downhill anytime soon? No...But many others feel threatened by the growing presence of Blacks and African-Americans in Orland. The recent parking lot robbery at the mall (by a Black woman to a White woman) was not treated as just any act of violence. It was treated as "THE BLACKS ARE COMING! THE BLACKS ARE COMING!". Sad, yes. But this was how it was looked at based on hundreds of posts on the news sites, Facebook, etc.

Many Southsiders and those in the southwest suburbs felt "pushed out" by Blacks and have always lived in somewhat close proximity to a Black population. White flight seems to be the most visible in the southwest/south suburbs. This is why even though some suburbs east and west of 57 are just as affordable as one another, they are still very segregated.

In the southwest suburbs, it seems like the overall attitudes towards Blacks accounts for the lack of a Black presence (as far as residency goes).

When you look at the north/northwest suburbs, it seems like the overall price of areas accounts for the lack of Black presence which is why when someone has an experience with a middle aged black man, they may assume that "they are a rapper or something if they can afford the area"....in the southwest burbs, they may be seen as "they must have got a great deal on a foreclosure, now here goes the neighborhood"

In case it isn't clear to other posters, the thoughts above are just my opinions on the whole situation, not my actual regards of any race.
I would totally agree with what you said. I find Naperville to be very welcoming of black and like you described nobody looked at you wierd or anything however I find Tinley, Palos, Orland, etc to be the whites from Homewood, Matteson, etc fleeing from blacks and wanting to move to a "white area".

Urza made a bunch of comments about south suburbs being more welcoming. Evergreen Park has to be one of the most racist areas arond, especially as far as the police are concerned if your driving through Evergreen and are black expect to be pulled over. Oak Lawn and many other south burbs are also very racist in my opinion.

Obviously this thread has taken a turn and is no longer at all helpful to the poster maybe we should move this over the the politics section or something.
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Old 11-07-2011, 10:43 PM
 
Location: South Chicagoland
4,111 posts, read 7,351,225 times
Reputation: 2017
Quote:
Originally Posted by rfr69 View Post
I would totally agree with what you said. I find Naperville to be very welcoming of black and like you described nobody looked at you wierd or anything however I find Tinley, Palos, Orland, etc to be the whites from Homewood, Matteson, etc fleeing from blacks and wanting to move to a "white area".

Urza made a bunch of comments about south suburbs being more welcoming. Evergreen Park has to be one of the most racist areas arond, especially as far as the police are concerned if your driving through Evergreen and are black expect to be pulled over. Oak Lawn and many other south burbs are also very racist in my opinion.
Stop by Evergreen Plaza sometime. I'm pretty sure they drove there.

By the way, these "south suburbs" are actually southwest suburbs that are waaay closer to Berwyn and Oak Park than where I'm from.

In my point of view, cops have a strong tendency to be some real jerks. I'm more interested in how civilians in Evergreen Park behave.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rfr69 View Post
Obviously this thread has taken a turn and is no longer at all helpful to the poster maybe we should move this over the the politics section or something.
Aside from my comment about Dupage County Republicans, this thread would be very out of place there. And people in the politics section won't even know what a "Dupage County Republican" is because they're not from Chicagoland.

Last edited by urza216; 11-07-2011 at 11:48 PM..
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Old 11-07-2011, 11:46 PM
 
Location: South Chicagoland
4,111 posts, read 7,351,225 times
Reputation: 2017
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northwest Indiana View Post

In case it isn't clear to other posters, the thoughts above are just my opinions on the whole situation, not my actual regards of any race.
Good footnote.
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Old 11-07-2011, 11:48 PM
 
1,002 posts, read 1,417,071 times
Reputation: 493
Quote:
Originally Posted by linicx View Post
How do you define diversity? I've always considered it a varigated mix of race, cultures, histories, religions, educaitons, languages, opinions, foods, lifestyles and how each views the social strata in which he/she lives, plays and works.
This point was already made earlier in the thread...
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Old 11-07-2011, 11:53 PM
 
1,002 posts, read 1,417,071 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urza216 View Post
The problem is that perfect diversity doesn't exist, anywhere. It doesn't have to have every



to be diverse.
True, but people here usually mean black and white when they say the word "diversity"... hence the reactions.
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Old 11-08-2011, 09:21 AM
 
Location: Chicago, Little Village
3,666 posts, read 6,829,771 times
Reputation: 2473
Quote:
Originally Posted by urza216 View Post
.

...And why is this? You say there are diverse suburbs around Naperville BUT I don't see any minorities anywhere in the crowd. Not a single face. Not one. Why? You see em all over the place in Orland but not Naperville.. Why? Could it be that one is more welcoming to minorities that live in nearby towns than the other? AT LEAST in the commercial district?

Personally, I think it's like what that one crazy racist dude was saying.. People in Naperville just don't have much experience with black people. To them, they see a middle aged black man in a fleece coat and it somehow reminds them of a rapper on MTV. Naperville hasn't been put to the test. I bet you if there was a significant influx in Naperville's black population, you would see those Republicans running all the way to Dekalb quicker than you can say "John McCain"...
I think it's largely a natural function of the way these suburbs are laid out. I don't know whether Orland/Tinley are necessarily welcoming to AAs but they are surrounded by a large number of AA majority suburbs, so it follows that their businesses are going to draw from that, particularly when they have a lot of nice bars, restaurants and retail easily accessible via major arteries and with plenty of parking.

Aside from some parts of Bolingbrook, there really isn't any large AA population anywhere close to Naperville. I don't see how they'll ever see a significant AA influx that sends people running to DeKalb, heh. Hispanics are another story, as Aurora, West Chicago, and many other western suburbs have larger numbers of that demographic. Latinos are growing in relatively nearby Plainfield and Romeoville, for example, and there's no reason to think that will stop there. Give Naperville 10 years and I think you'll see a lot more Hispanics there.

Also, downtown Naperville takes a pretty special effort to go there. The businesses there are more upscale and parking is absolute murder on weekends. It doesn't have the car orientated chain restaurants/retail that Tinley and Orland do. So that may also have something to do with the demographic mix you've observed.
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Old 11-08-2011, 09:51 AM
 
5,807 posts, read 10,337,835 times
Reputation: 4306
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northwest Indiana View Post
In my opinion, I honestly think that the presence of Blacks in Tinley/Orland is more so due to proximity to predominantly Black areas more-so than it being "more welcoming".


I have been to downtown Naperville a few times. Yes, I was one of the few Black individuals there, but I never felt like I was being watched or anything. The areas surrounding Naperville (with the exception of parts of Bolingbrook) are overhwelmingly White, then a mix of Hispanic and various Asian cultures. But overall, I felt comfortable in that I didn't feel like I was being discriminated against.

Orland on the other hand is a different story. I am always in the Orland area because the retail in that area is better than what we have in NWI and pretty close. But while the Black population is much more visible in Orland, it doesn't mean that it is necessarily welcome. Especially as of recently, there is a growing sentiment in the area that Blacks are "finally discovering/affording" Orland in larger numbers and that it will become "another Cal City"....people have said things like "why don't THEY go to the Olive Garden/Mall/Movies in Cal City?"...I have been stared at a few times too...do I think Orland will go downhill anytime soon? No...But many others feel threatened by the growing presence of Blacks and African-Americans in Orland. The recent parking lot robbery at the mall (by a Black woman to a White woman) was not treated as just any act of violence. It was treated as "THE BLACKS ARE COMING! THE BLACKS ARE COMING!". Sad, yes. But this was how it was looked at based on hundreds of posts on the news sites, Facebook, etc.

Many Southsiders and those in the southwest suburbs felt "pushed out" by Blacks and have always lived in somewhat close proximity to a Black population. White flight seems to be the most visible in the southwest/south suburbs. This is why even though some suburbs east and west of 57 are just as affordable as one another, they are still very segregated.

In the southwest suburbs, it seems like the overall attitudes towards Blacks accounts for the lack of a Black presence (as far as residency goes).

When you look at the north/northwest suburbs, it seems like the overall price of areas accounts for the lack of Black presence which is why when someone has an experience with a middle aged black man, they may assume that "they are a rapper or something if they can afford the area"....in the southwest burbs, they may be seen as "they must have got a great deal on a foreclosure, now here goes the neighborhood"

In case it isn't clear to other posters, the thoughts above are just my opinions on the whole situation, not my actual regards of any race.
Exactly. This is what I meant. I am white, but based on all the people I know in the Naperville and the Orland/Tinley area, this is spot on.
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Old 11-08-2011, 09:44 PM
 
Location: NC/IL/MI
3,625 posts, read 6,943,929 times
Reputation: 1663
Quote:
Originally Posted by rfr69 View Post
I would totally agree with what you said. I find Naperville to be very welcoming of black and like you described nobody looked at you wierd or anything however I find Tinley, Palos, Orland, etc to be the whites from Homewood, Matteson, etc fleeing from blacks and wanting to move to a "white area".

Urza made a bunch of comments about south suburbs being more welcoming. Evergreen Park has to be one of the most racist areas arond, especially as far as the police are concerned if your driving through Evergreen and are black expect to be pulled over. Oak Lawn and many other south burbs are also very racist in my opinion.

Obviously this thread has taken a turn and is no longer at all helpful to the poster maybe we should move this over the the politics section or something.
Tell me about it. I mean there is a reason why Evergreen Park and Oak Lawn are still overwhelmingly white/Irish despite being only a few miles from 90 percent black southside neighborhoods. (although I do know a couple of African Americans living in these towns). If you Drive down 95th street you can see the sudden change from Irish Catholic to African American. There's a little transition zone around the Plaza, but other than that it's just abrupt.

Naperville, IMHO, is pretty much the anti-thesis of Oak Lawn and Evergreen Park. Fiscally conservative but Socially liberal (or moderate). Never felt uncomfortable in Naperville either.

However, contrary to popular belief it's not like everywhere you go there's nothing but white people. There is some Hispanic spill over from neighboring towns like West Chicago and Aurora. Also there are alot of Indians and Phillipinos in Naperville. Not to many black people though. The only areas that I can think of with noticeable black populations near Naperville are in Bolingbrook/Southern Woodridge, Parts of Aurora, romeoville, and Joliet, but even then these areas are not majority African American.

mas23

Last edited by mas23; 11-08-2011 at 09:56 PM..
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