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Old 11-09-2011, 12:09 AM
 
Location: South Chicagoland
4,111 posts, read 7,358,063 times
Reputation: 2017

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I really don't know how prevelant the "south side Irish" even are in Tinley and Orland. These areas are huge and serve as a shopping hub for the southland. It's not really a place you move to to be left alone.

Anyway, althoiugh my City-Data window is pretty much always open and clsoe freinds who use my computer can see it,it's abnormal to bring something I've been reading on City-Data into real life but this time I just had to. It is very unfortunate that all I have is my word that I'm talking about a real person and not another person. I suggested to my friend he make a city-Data account but I also said people would prabably thing it's an alternative account of mine. And he jokingly said his screen name would be I Hate Urza216 and pretend to be my enemy.

Anyway, I really only have 4 REAL friends who I still see regularly anymore. I'm thankful to at least one. One of my good friends is black and has lived in the same house in Beacon Hill in Chicago Heights his whole (the subdivision that went to Rich East High School in Park Forest - or at least when we were growing up, kids from Beacon Hill did). We used to hang out with a guy from Tinley Park all the time but I guess people just grow up and drift apart.

I asked him today if he thought Tinley Park was a racist town. Me and him tend to see eye to eye on a lot of things and argue non-stop about others.. He said he thought Tinley had racist people but it's not a racist town. In his opinion, racist reputations in towns mostly just come from dumb kids. A group of young white guys (not older white guys or white women) have "dihariah of the mouth" and don't know any better, spouting racist garbage because they don't see very many black people and it's not something they are used to. Or on the flip side, a group of black teenagers are acting a fool and trying to intimidate white people since they don't see very many white people and it's not something they are used to. So now it becomes "oh, that town is racist. they hate black people" or "white people can't even pass through that town" (as another white person says, wait but I live here..) And to be clear, I'm repeating something someone else's words closely to the way he said it.. He's been to Naperville too but really only so many people from the far south suburbs have so much experience with it. I asked him about Naperville and he thought it was like Tinley Park only people there have even less experience with white people. I brought up the white flight of the past and how this could translate into Tinley Park being a racist town went right over his head (it prabobly would go right over mine too if I hadn't been reading these forums so much). He just said "Yeah, apparently Matteson was like Tinley at one time". But anyway, yeah.. I also mentioned Orland Mall and he said no, he's never felt unwelcomed in Orland Mall. More like directed to Hot Topic the second I walk in the door. But I asked where the bathroom was? Well, Hot Topic is that way..

Like I've stated before, the south suburbs east of I-57 have ALWAYS been like this as far as I can remember. And I'm 25 years old. This is a RACIALLY MIXED and INTEGRATED area.. White people from this area don't live "in somewhat close proximity to black people" as Northwest Indiana put it but in VERY close proximity. As Allen has said before, white flight has already happened. And here is what the stats are - in spite of all these posts making the southland sound way more segregated than it actually is. You know, with all the blacks living on one side of the expressway and all the whites on the other. Because apparently I don't exist. And neither does the white girl who I used to know that got killed by a drunk driver on the corner of Vollmer Road and Cicero two days ago.. Because white girls don't live around there, pfft! All these damn white people blowing up my facebook with RIP's don't exist either! They're all from the southWEST suburbs and know nothing about someone from Park Forest who got killed on Vollmer and Cicero!




























Last edited by urza216; 11-09-2011 at 12:41 AM..
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Old 11-09-2011, 01:45 AM
 
Location: South Chicagoland
4,111 posts, read 7,358,063 times
Reputation: 2017
I kinda want to severely edit down that last comment now but oh well. This forum is for talking about local issues. Lininx can delete the whole thing if she wants.
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Old 11-09-2011, 08:58 AM
 
Location: Chicago, Little Village
3,676 posts, read 6,837,825 times
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I think the traditional "white flight" model has changed over the years. I think now, most people are willing to tolerate racial diversity, with some exceptions of course. However, I think people are much less willing to tolerate economic diversity. And unfortunately, with the achievement gap and what not, these revised tendencies lead to segregation also. So closing that gap should be a definite priority and would resolve a lot of the issues being discussed here, IMHO.
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Old 11-09-2011, 01:01 PM
 
1,002 posts, read 1,418,288 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urza216 View Post
. Lininx can delete the whole thing if she wants.
You may be taken up on that.
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Old 11-09-2011, 01:07 PM
 
763 posts, read 2,226,262 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mas23 View Post
Tell me about it. I mean there is a reason why Evergreen Park and Oak Lawn are still overwhelmingly white/Irish despite being only a few miles from 90 percent black southside neighborhoods. (although I do know a couple of African Americans living in these towns). If you Drive down 95th street you can see the sudden change from Irish Catholic to African American. There's a little transition zone around the Plaza, but other than that it's just abrupt.

Naperville, IMHO, is pretty much the anti-thesis of Oak Lawn and Evergreen Park. Fiscally conservative but Socially liberal (or moderate). Never felt uncomfortable in Naperville either.

However, contrary to popular belief it's not like everywhere you go there's nothing but white people. There is some Hispanic spill over from neighboring towns like West Chicago and Aurora. Also there are alot of Indians and Phillipinos in Naperville. Not to many black people though. The only areas that I can think of with noticeable black populations near Naperville are in Bolingbrook/Southern Woodridge, Parts of Aurora, romeoville, and Joliet, but even then these areas are not majority African American.

mas23
Add me to the defenders of Naperville. People don't want to let facts get in the way. It's not necessarily economically diverse, but it also isn't lily-white (especially compared to a lot of the affluent North Shore suburbs):

Quote:
Demographics (as of the 2010 Census):

* White – 76.5%
* Asian – 14.9%
* Hispanic or Latino – 5.3%
* Black – 4.7%
City of Naperville || Demographics and Key Facts

There's a reminder that whites and blacks aren't the only two races. As you can see, Naperville has a very high Asian population. The Asian population in the two public school districts in Naperville is even higher (over 20%) since that segment is skewed toward families with school age children. It just boggles my mind when I see some of the stereotypes about Naperville. There's certainly a lot of "keeping up with the Joneses" as with any affluent suburb, but a lot of city people seem to use Naperville as a proxy for "boring white car dependent cookie cutter town" when it's one of the handful of suburbs that actually doesn't fit the "Bland Suburbia" mold.

FWIW, I grew up in Glenwood and Homewood in the south suburbs and attended Homewood-Flossmoor High School. While those towns are more racially diverse on paper, the demographics are also rapidly changing in a manner where it's more "transitional diversity" (many whites moving out and many blacks moving in) as opposed to "permanent diversity" (more like Oak Park where the racial distribution has been fairly stable for a long period of time). Not saying that's good or bad, but just an observation as my parents still live there. Growing up in the south suburbs, I've also spent a ton of time of Orland Park and Tinley Park, and the characterization of them being extensions of the South Side Irish enclaves is very much on target. I don't see how anyone could think Orland is a more diverse (or racially tolerant) area than Naperville.

Also note that Naperville, for better or for worse, is a more transient town than most suburbs since it's such a popular place for corporate transferees. There's no "OMG! Look at those people moving into the neighborhood!" factor there that you might see in towns that don't have the same constant changes.
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Old 11-09-2011, 01:30 PM
 
Location: South Chicagoland
4,111 posts, read 7,358,063 times
Reputation: 2017
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank the Tank View Post
FWIW, I grew up in Glenwood and Homewood in the south suburbs and attended Homewood-Flossmoor High School. While those towns are more racially diverse on paper, the demographics are also rapidly changing in a manner where it's more "transitional diversity" (many whites moving out and many blacks moving in) as opposed to "permanent diversity" (more like Oak Park where the racial distribution has been fairly stable for a long period of time).
That's funny because when I was in grade school it was racially mixed. I'm in my mid twenties and it's still racially mixed. Just how long is this gonna take before all of us south suburban whites are supposedly gonna be gone?

There were two recent comments that nonchalontly talked about racial profiling of black people in Oak Park like it was a good thing. What's up with that?

West side gangs and Oak Park

I love Oak Park (and Berwyn and Forest Park) but I never thought it was that special in the way that Oak Parkers boast about it.

Last edited by urza216; 11-09-2011 at 01:43 PM..
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Old 11-09-2011, 01:54 PM
 
Location: South Chicagoland
4,111 posts, read 7,358,063 times
Reputation: 2017
Quote:
Originally Posted by chitownperson View Post
You may be taken up on that.
Actually, I did make this request a while back for a different comment and it never happened.

But nah, I don't care anymore. It's not the first time I've given too much info about myself on a forum as dry and serious as this one.
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Old 11-09-2011, 02:13 PM
 
Location: Chicago, Little Village
3,676 posts, read 6,837,825 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urza216 View Post
That's funny because when I was in grade school it was racially mixed. I'm in my mid twenties and it's still racially mixed. Just how long is this gonna take before all of us south suburban whites are supposedly gonna be gone?

There were two recent comments that nonchalontly talked about racial profiling of black people in Oak Park like it was a good thing. What's up with that?

West side gangs and Oak Park

I love Oak Park (and Berwyn and Forest Park) but I never thought it was that special in the way that Oak Parkers boast about it.
Oak Parkers boast about their diversity and, for a Chicago suburb, it is very diverse, which perhaps isn't saying much but should be acknowledged. But the economic diversity isn't what it once was, and the newer residents of the Village do not place the same value on diversity that previous generations of Oak Parkers did. And there has always been segregation in that community. The wealthiest parts of OP, for example, are not particularly diverse, either in terms of economics or in race, and the areas south of I-290 and east of Ridgeland were historically considered to be practically different communities by some Village residents.
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Old 11-09-2011, 05:37 PM
 
1,002 posts, read 1,418,288 times
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The thing about Oak Park is that it's not only racially diverse (not the most diverse on paper), but it's also more well integrated then a lot of suburbs that have high levels of diversity, which is a special thing in greater Chicago.

Oak Park also has a lot of mix race couples (a gay population that rivals boys town), economic diversity... If you consider other forms of diversity, Oak Park feels a lot more diverse. The feeling of integration in Oak Park boosts the sense of diversity because a lot of minorities can go there without feeling out of place.

There needs to be a good dose of analysis when looking at raw data, so when some area boasts about diversity on paper, it may be nothing more than a few groups that are very segregated. For example, Frank the Tank talks about the large Asian population... There's a large indian population there that pretty much sticks to there community, so there maybe a lot of Indians there, but what does that diversity mean in there are mostly cut off, or cut themselves off from everyone else?
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Old 11-09-2011, 05:50 PM
 
Location: South Chicagoland
4,111 posts, read 7,358,063 times
Reputation: 2017
In Park Forest, there is no segregation between whites and blacks unless you strain your eyes to look for it. The southern part of Park Forest seems to have a higher concentration of whites. Also, the EastGate neighborhood is virtually all black but there are a few whites living there. The town is racially integrated with blacks and whites living on almost every block except in EastGate where some blocks are all-black. Yes, blacks are in the majority unlike Oak Park.


Last edited by urza216; 11-09-2011 at 05:59 PM..
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