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Old 11-09-2011, 04:32 AM
 
Location: Not where you ever lived
11,544 posts, read 25,103,091 times
Reputation: 6189

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The sky is falling, the end of America is in sight, everywhere but __________ is a terrible place to live (you fill in the blank) and all IL schools except _______ (fill in the blank) are failing.

The fact is, and it has been this way since the first school opened, parents who want their kids well educated are involved. They are involved with the teacher, school, principal, school board, school activities and school work at home. Parents who do this from the first day of school to graduation will have a well educated child. If indeed the sky is falling and the Chicago school system is in the toilet with no hope for redemptio then it is time for parents who care to homeschool. It is a better education anyway.

Parents who are not involved cannot expect much
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Old 11-09-2011, 07:40 AM
 
Location: Lake Arlington Heights, IL
5,481 posts, read 10,065,328 times
Reputation: 2784
Quote:
Originally Posted by linicx View Post
The sky is falling, the end of America is in sight, everywhere but __________ is a terrible place to live (you fill in the blank) and all IL schools except _______ (fill in the blank) are failing.

The fact is, and it has been this way since the first school opened, parents who want their kids well educated are involved. They are involved with the teacher, school, principal, school board, school activities and school work at home. Parents who do this from the first day of school to graduation will have a well educated child. If indeed the sky is falling and the Chicago school system is in the toilet with no hope for redemptio then it is time for parents who care to homeschool. It is a better education anyway.

Parents who are not involved cannot expect much
IF you look at general test scores only; sometimes what you say is true. I believe what Chet was saying is that for what you pay in housing costs and property taxes OP/RF high school should have better OVERALL test scores and the reason it doesn't is because there is still quite a gap in scores between white students and minority students. I think Evanston HS has same issue and I know Wheeling HS has similar issue. Some parents are OK with this, feel their kid will get an excellent education, do well and learn more in a more diverse environment. Other parents would choose to go to a more homogenous school like a New Trier or a Hersey where there are much fewer minority kids and over all test scores are reassuringly high.
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Old 11-09-2011, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Chicagoland
323 posts, read 329,271 times
Reputation: 459
I'd check into Western Springs / Lagrange. that might be stretching the 20 minute criterion, but not by much. I'll defer to those with more experience about Oak Park.
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Old 11-09-2011, 01:50 PM
 
28,384 posts, read 68,011,584 times
Reputation: 18195
Default Yes, this issue does not get the attention it deserves!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cubssoxfan View Post
IF you look at general test scores only; sometimes what you say is true. I believe what Chet was saying is that for what you pay in housing costs and property taxes OP/RF high school should have better OVERALL test scores and the reason it doesn't is because there is still quite a gap in scores between white students and minority students. I think Evanston HS has same issue and I know Wheeling HS has similar issue. Some parents are OK with this, feel their kid will get an excellent education, do well and learn more in a more diverse environment. Other parents would choose to go to a more homogenous school like a New Trier or a Hersey where there are much fewer minority kids and over all test scores are reassuringly high.
The fact is that anyone that has the means to live in any part of region and is relocating / thinking of moving before starting a family has access to only a handful of objective measures of school performance. When you look at the numbers there are a whole lot of schools that are do not have impressive results and whether those numbers are pulled down by kids from underprepared backgrounds or some other factors there is really very little that shows up in the objective data.

On a broad public policy level I do not think there are many people that would express a desire to ignore these kinds of problems but unless there are some major changes in how resources are allocated it is extremely unlikely that these long term trends are going to be reversed.

The objective list compiled from the results of state mandated tests and hosted by NIU lists dozens of towns that have most /all schools on the Honor Roll and there about 300 schools that merit "spotlight" awards for their success with student populations that have had more of struggles. Towns that do not fall into either category really need to be questioned as to whether the gaps in achievement will ever be addressed. If they are not it is not the sky that will be falling but certainly the desirability of these towns among people that want a good education for their children...

Illinois Honor Roll
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Old 11-09-2011, 03:27 PM
 
Location: Lake Arlington Heights, IL
5,481 posts, read 10,065,328 times
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Well I take "lists" with a huge grain of salt. Plug in Dist 23 and you will see good performance in '08 & '09. Why aren't we on the list this year? Because a small group of non-english speakers scored about 5 points below the average to not trigger AWS on No Child Left Behind status. Interestingly enough, these same students did almost as well as native English speaking students in math. Pretty soon these lists will lose relevance as any school avoiding AWS will need to have its students score at 100% on achievement tests. This is impossible. Our students score in the low to mid '90's in achievement tests. It is harder to gain 5% improvement here than at a district that has scores in the '60's. Since the "Honor Roll" does rely on AYP I believe it is only partial information!
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Old 11-10-2011, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Chicago, Little Village
3,680 posts, read 6,841,087 times
Reputation: 2488
Quote:
Originally Posted by cubssoxfan View Post
Other parents would choose to go to a more homogenous school like a New Trier or a Hersey where there are much fewer minority kids and over all test scores are reassuringly high.
Yup, and how long is that going to remain the case in many suburbs? Unless the 'burb is very, very affluent, I don't think you can necessarily bet on this. Will test scores in some of these reassuring districts remain high when kids without preschool education and on the wrong side of the achievement gap start moving in in larger numbers? Unless there are some major changes in how resources are allocated, suffice it to say that I'd consider public schools as a factor, but not the determinative factor, in selecting a community. I'd also consider proximity to the large job centers and proximity to good private schools.
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Old 11-10-2011, 03:30 PM
 
Location: Lake Arlington Heights, IL
5,481 posts, read 10,065,328 times
Reputation: 2784
Default for starter, dig deeper than the overall average test scores and top 20 lists....

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRU67 View Post
Yup, and how long is that going to remain the case in many suburbs? Unless the 'burb is very, very affluent, I don't think you can necessarily bet on this. Will test scores in some of these reassuring districts remain high when kids without preschool education and on the wrong side of the achievement gap start moving in in larger numbers? Unless there are some major changes in how resources are allocated, suffice it to say that I'd consider public schools as a factor, but not the determinative factor, in selecting a community. I'd also consider proximity to the large job centers and proximity to good private schools.
And why would I want to pay TWICE for sending my kids to school? First via property tax and secondly via private school tuition?! Especially when one can find good schools with some reasonable research. I was actually being critical of parents that rely on only the average test scores when I mentioned "reassuring districts/schools"
I agree the balance between improving the under-performing kid and investing in the higher performing kid is challenging. I feel that improving the under-performing kids often comes at the expense of the higher performing kid.
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Old 11-10-2011, 07:01 PM
 
Location: Chicago, Little Village
3,680 posts, read 6,841,087 times
Reputation: 2488
Quote:
Originally Posted by cubssoxfan View Post
And why would I want to pay TWICE for sending my kids to school? First via property tax and secondly via private school tuition?! Especially when one can find good schools with some reasonable research. I was actually being critical of parents that rely on only the average test scores when I mentioned "reassuring districts/schools"
I agree the balance between improving the under-performing kid and investing in the higher performing kid is challenging. I feel that improving the under-performing kids often comes at the expense of the higher performing kid.
It's very difficult to do, which is why I'd fear that schools not used to doing it might see a sharp drop in test scores, which of course could lead to you doing what you do not want to have to do. School resources do tend to get focused on the under-performing kids, because they require the most resources.
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