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Old 12-02-2011, 09:03 AM
 
10,287 posts, read 12,404,411 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oakparkdude View Post
Well, I don't really have the time nor the expertise to rebut Chet's points, and its kinda of an aside (albeit an interesting one for me) from the original point of the thread.

That being said, as Chet acknowledges, having an el in your suburban CBD definitely adds a different character to your suburb. It is appealing for folks with non-traditional schedules (DFHs, Bohemian-types, students, flex-time workers, part-time workers, retirees) as it allows easy access to the biggest walkable neighborhood (Chicago Loop + surrounding neighborhoods) in the region. Contrary to what Chet believes, there are actually reasons to travel around Chicagoland during off-peak times besides doctor and dentist appointments.
I think in some peoples world, the only humans that matter are white middle to upper middle class suburbanites.
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Old 12-02-2011, 10:13 AM
 
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The nostalgia that some people hold for models of municipal organization that are unsustainable is far more of a concern to me than any petty barbs that are thrown...

The efforts to revitalize the core urban areas of Joliet or Elgin have not succeeded becuase the lifestyle that existed when these place were functional have disapperead. Once upon a time people could support a decent life with dad working in quarry or at a watchmaking assemblyline and mom could shop with the kids in downtown businesses. Maybe they'd bump into some bankers or lawyers with offices in those area too.

That era is gone.

The few jobs that those areas hold are now largely in their outlying retail strip malls. The income requirement are such that every member family that can work pretty much has to. There is no time for a leisurely streetcar ride to the core of town for shopping. Necessities of life have to be picked up at discount groceries. If there are going to be gifts to exchange on the rare day that retail workers will get some time off those present had better be bought at deep discounts on Black Friday at 4 AM... Those changes happened when labor unions were strong. The problem was not that some dark force was keeping people down but that municipal leaders in towns that were once vibrant failed to respond appropriately to the shifts that were happening.

With the drive to "strip mall & WalMart" Chicago itself comming from the Aldermen and developers that bankroll 'em those who find walkable part of the city desirable better step away from their isolation and realize what sorts of things are in their future.
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Old 12-02-2011, 10:15 AM
 
10,287 posts, read 12,404,411 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett View Post
The nostalgia that some people hold for models of municipal organization that are unsustainable is far more of a concern to me than any petty barbs that are thrown...

The efforts to revitalize the core urban areas of Joliet or Elgin have not succeeded becuase the lifestyle that existed when these place were functional have disapperead. Once upon a time people could support a decent life with dad working in quarry or at a watchmaking assemblyline and mom could shop with the kids in downtown businesses. Maybe they'd bump into some bankers or lawyers with offices in those area too.

That era is gone.

The few jobs that those areas hold are now largely in their outlying retail strip malls. The income requirement are such that every family that can work pretty much has to. There is no time for a leisurely streetcar ride to the core of town for shopping. Necessities of life have to be picked up at discount groceries. If there are going to gifts to exchange on the rare day that retail workers will get some time off those present had better be bought at deep discounts on Black Friday at 4 AM...

With the drive to "strip mall & WalMart" Chicago itself comming from the Aldermen and developers that bankroll 'em those who find walkable part of the city desirable better step away from their isolation and realize what sorts of things are in their future.
Chet please stop. There is a large population of people who use the CTA at hours that you may not like.
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Old 12-02-2011, 10:22 AM
 
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For all some poster's professed love of the magical land of 606xx they seem unaware of the profound problems that need to be addressed:
WGN - Claypool: CTA faces $277M in red ink for 2012
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Old 12-02-2011, 10:40 AM
 
10,287 posts, read 12,404,411 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett View Post
For all some poster's professed love of the magical land of 606xx they seem unaware of the profound problems that need to be addressed:
WGN - Claypool: CTA faces $277M in red ink for 2012
I am aware of the CTAs issues.

Are you aware that this happening around most of the country?

Did you know that the world is in the worst economic situation since the Great Depression?
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Old 12-02-2011, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Oak Park, IL
5,520 posts, read 11,974,524 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett View Post
The nostalgia that some people hold for models of municipal organization that are unsustainable is far more of a concern to me than any petty barbs that are thrown...

The efforts to revitalize the core urban areas of Joliet or Elgin have not succeeded becuase the lifestyle that existed when these place were functional have disapperead. Once upon a time people could support a decent life with dad working in quarry or at a watchmaking assemblyline and mom could shop with the kids in downtown businesses. Maybe they'd bump into some bankers or lawyers with offices in those area too.
I agree that Joliet and Elgin are not good candidates for an el station. I would never advocate extending the Chicago el system to those towns.

But we're not talking about Joliet and Elgin, but of Oak Park and Evanston. The demographic differences between the two sets of suburbs is pretty extreme.

Also to echo Vlajos, given the worst economic recession in 70 years, I'm surprised government services haven't been cut back more.
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Old 12-02-2011, 10:57 AM
 
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I don't hold out hope that the CTA will extend service to Joliet or Elgin but instead use them as cautionary examples of towns that once had walkable cores that have long since been past their prime.
Where once those towns did have more frequent / varied public transit options the inability to address the problems that came about when their economies faltered have left them as inhosptitable as I fear closer more affluent suburbs may become if they fail to see the writing on the wall...
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Old 12-02-2011, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Chicago
3,569 posts, read 5,772,844 times
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Maywood used to have CTA train....

http://www.chicago-l.org/stations/desplaines.html

4th paragraph

Last edited by Alacran; 12-02-2011 at 12:53 PM..
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Old 12-02-2011, 12:49 PM
 
Location: roaming gnome
12,391 posts, read 23,771,085 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pvande55 View Post
Plenty of suburbs have walkable downtown areas. Many also have train stations in those places. How far are you willing to walk?
There is a difference between "train station" ...and the El.
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Old 12-02-2011, 12:53 PM
 
Location: roaming gnome
12,391 posts, read 23,771,085 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett View Post
I mean the nostalgia factor aside, does it really make sense to run a big empty train or bus around in circles? If the things ran on magic fairy dust it might be less of waste, but the majority of buses are spewing diesel exhaust and not as efficient as a little Jetta and certainly not a Prius or CNG Civic...

The electricity for the El trains is coming from the filthy belching coal fired plants that ought to be shut down...

It is only a matter of time before the environmental load and operational overhead are just too burdensome...

Rush hour is a different proposition altogether -- when those buses or trains are FULL the "CO2 per mile" that anything sort of a fleet of Leaf plug-ins are excellent.
It's also one less car on the street and used by millions. Your logic doesn't really make sense.
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