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Old 12-15-2011, 12:14 AM
 
49 posts, read 106,962 times
Reputation: 20

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post
Aside from the fact that what you quoted isn't the actual ordinance, there is nothing in the section you quoted that contradicts a single word of what I have said. The quote you provided still states any car registered in Evanston must have an Evanston sticker just as I said, and it still makes no distinction between whether you keep it in plain view or not, just as I said.
I didn't quote the ordinance only because it's too long, but basically says the same thing. You don't think so? That's your opinion, and that's all it is.

In my opinion. you are continuing to argue, solely for the sake of being argumentative.

Quote:
You might be confusing two different requirements. The wheel tax is not the same as a vehicle parking sticker.
During no point in this conversation were we ever talking wheel tax. The OP clearly stated that he got a parking ticket for not displaying his decal in his very first post.

Quote:
Nope, not quite. Maybe I could be like you and try to pass off information posted on a college website as the Evanston city ordnance.
Then let's see some proof to substantiate, oh, anything you've said. But if you want it from the official website? I went to the official Evanston, and this is what is posted on the official Evanston website regarding residential parking stickers: Residential Parking Permits - Parking | City of Evanston

Quote:
Residential Parking Permits

There are 25 different Residential Parking Districts established in areas where there is high demand for on-street parking or a need to reduce commuter parking in residential areas.
On-Street Residential Parking Permits
Vehicles must display a current residential parking district permit for the specific area in order to be exempt from certain posted regulations. Only residents who live within a specific residential area can purchase residential parking permits. Residents must also display a current city sticker. In order to purchase Residential Parking Permits, residents must provide the following:
Again, those permits (ie., stickers) apply only to ON STREET parking, and the original poster was not parked on the street.

Now, if you want to claim otherwise, post proof!



Quote:
So you do in fact agree with me that the ordinance is not so ambiguous that it won't pass legal scrutiny. Thank you.
In regards to residential parking sticker requirement, there is no ambiguity about it. but it still applies only to parking ON THE STREET. The original poster was parked on private property. Just stop.

Quote:
Once again I don't even know what the hell you're talking about or how it's relevant to the OP's situation.
Because if he got a ticket for not having a parking decal, well, he doesn't need one for parking on private property.

Quote:
IF that's what he got the ticket for, then you're right.
Yeah, thank you. And again, I'd almost be willing to bet money that's what he was cited for, erroneously.

Quote:
But if he got it for not having the city sticker which is likely the case, (s)he's nailed unless his/her legitimate permanent residence is elsewhere and his/her car is registered there. The language of the ordinance -- the actual ordinance and not some text taken from a university website mind you -- suggests that's his/her best hope of an out.
Oh, I don't know about that. The OP also stated that he hadn't been living there that long, and IF the officer had given him that ticket for not having a "wheel tax" sticker (highly doubtful as that may be), how could the officer have possibly have known how long he had been living there?

I doubt seriously that ticket was for the wheel tax, but as long as you want to argue wheel taxes, here's the relevant section of the ordinance about registration for wheel taxes in Evanston, from the municipal code:
Municode - Search

Quote:
Any person who is the owner of a motor vehicle on January 1 shall be required to have affixed on the left side of the windshield of the vehicle a wheel tax license for that year. All such licenses shall expire on December 31 following the date of issuance. In the event of new ownership, the new owner shall make application for a wheel tax license within twenty four (24) hours after acquiring a vehicle.
So basically, you are required to register in Evanston if you are the owner of a vehicle registered in Evanston, on January 1st of that year. Unless you buy a new car, in which case you are required to apply for a wheel tax license within 24 hours after acquiring that vehicle.

But then, it gets interesting:

Quote:
10-8-6: - ONE-HALF YEAR LICENSE FEES:
[LEFT]One-half (1/2) year rates on all vehicle licenses shall apply to those owners who purchased or registered vehicles on or after July 1. No wheel tax license shall be issued to any owner for a one-half (1/2) year period until such owner has received his license indicating registration of such vehicle with the secretary of state and such wheel tax license shall be issued for such period as the state license has been issued.
So, no wheel tax license shall be issued to any owner for a one half (1/2) year period UNTIL such owner has received his license indicating registration of such vehicle with the secretary of state, etc.....

This is December. So he couldn't even apply for a wheel tax license until he gets his registration renewal from the state, or until January 1, because Evanston isn't going to issue one to him until then.


Quote:
IF the OP has a legitimate reason for having the vehcile registered outside of Evanston, such as the Evanston address being temporary (like if OP is a student), then the OP may have an out. If the OP's car is registered in Evanston or is required to be, (s)he's nailed.
Yeah, well, I don't know about that. The more I read those ordinances, the more probability I see for disputing that ticket. As well as additional legitimate reasons justify not getting a wheel sticker as well, but my money's still on an erroneous parking ticket, and that's a complete no brainer win.

I recommend the original poster consult an attorney.

Last edited by sarabeth1111; 12-15-2011 at 12:33 AM..
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Old 12-15-2011, 12:58 AM
 
Location: Chicago
38,691 posts, read 86,811,612 times
Reputation: 29355
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarabeth1111 View Post
During no point in this conversation were we ever talking wheel tax.
Actually we were. You even quoted paraphrased portions of the wheel tax ordinance that you tried to pass off as the actual ordinance and now claim you were never discussing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarabeth1111 View Post
The OP clearly stated that he got a parking ticket for not displaying his decal in his very first post.
The OP did not state which one the ticket was issued for: failure to display the parking sticker, or failure to display the wheel tax sticker. I think we can infer from the facts that the ticket was issued for the latter.

So instead of arguing around in stupid circles, let's break it down for the OP:
1) If your car is registered in Evanston and you were ticketed for not displaying your wheel tax sticker, they have you dead to rights even if you were parked on a private lot that is accessible by the public. Pay up and get a sticker.

2) If your car is not registered in Evanston but should be in accordance with the Secretary of State vehicle registration requirements (aka you moved here more than 30 days ago and this is your new permanent address), they have you dead to rights. Pay up and get a sticker.

3) If this is not a permanent address (for instance if you are a student whose permanent address is elsewhere) or your car is legitimately registered to another address, you may have recourse at your hearing.

4) If you were issued a ticket for failure to have a parking permit as sarabeth is fixated on and you were in fact parked on private property, you may have recourse at your hearing.
Those are the four conceivable scenarios.
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Old 12-15-2011, 01:22 AM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
16,475 posts, read 20,009,944 times
Reputation: 22399
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasily View Post

As the saying goes, ignorance of the law is no excuse ... you can try to fight it, but my money's on the city of Evanston.
So what are you saying, that we should check some city website every month or two to see if some new law was just created, as the city is not likely to disseminate the information to every household in the city. Some people don't read newspapers, they don't watch televised news, like myself, so it's our duty to find out ourselves? And if we don't find out ourselves, then you know how it goes:

"Officer, I had no idea!"
"Yeah, yeah, yeah, they all say that!"

I was shocked a month ago to learn, after being in this city for 16 years, that you could get fined $150 for spitting on the sidewalk downtown, as I bumped into someone who was fined for that offense.

I polled 30 people later, mostly co-workers, and only 3 people knew of that law!

This makes it even more frustrating for tourists! I'm a smoker, and I know, today, before I travel anywhere, I had better do my research before ending up with a fine for smoking somewhere I shouldn't and should have!
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Old 12-15-2011, 04:32 AM
 
49 posts, read 106,962 times
Reputation: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post
Actually we were. You even quoted paraphrased portions of the wheel tax ordinance that you tried to pass off as the actual ordinance and now claim you were never discussing.
No, I'm sorry, but you kept going on about a residency sticker, and when I typed that term into the website for Evanston, there were no results. The quote I posted was from the closest thing I could find, until you specified a wheel tax.

actually in perusing the website for Evanston, there's a page on the parking stickers for street parking, but not one specifically for the wheel tax. I had to go through the ordinances to find it, and it was buried pretty deep.

Quote:
The OP did not state which one the ticket was issued for: failure to display the parking sticker, or failure to display the wheel tax sticker. I think we can infer from the facts that the ticket was issued for the latter.

So instead of arguing around in stupid circles, let's break it down for the OP:
1) If your car is registered in Evanston and you were ticketed for not displaying your wheel tax sticker, they have you dead to rights even if you were parked on a private lot that is accessible by the public. Pay up and get a sticker.

2) If your car is not registered in Evanston but should be in accordance with the Secretary of State vehicle registration requirements (aka you moved here more than 30 days ago and this is your new permanent address), they have you dead to rights. Pay up and get a sticker.

Where did you see any 30 day requirement in that ordinance? Post proof, by quoting that 30 day requirement, as it appears, in the actual ordinance.

However, I read that ordinance and aside from not seeing anything about any 30 day sticker requirement, you are completely ignoring the section I posted regarding the year, and 1/2 year stickers, which was not paraphrased, it was a direct verbatim quote, from the actual wheel tax ordinance.

Quote:
3) If this is not a permanent address (for instance if you are a student whose permanent address is elsewhere) or your car is legitimately registered to another address, you may have recourse at your hearing.
Again, completely ignoring the section, taken verbatim from the ordinance about the 1/2 year requirement, which I clearly posted for you.

There may be other circumstances. Just because you don't know them and I haven't conducted a thorough enough search yet, doesn't mean other exceptions don't exist.


Quote:
4) If you were issued a ticket for failure to have a parking permit as sarabeth is fixated on and you were in fact parked on private property, you may have recourse at your hearing.
Quote:
Those are the four conceivable scenarios.
No that particular scenerio's pretty much a guaranteed win.

Just because these may be the only scenarios you've been able to fabricate, doesn't mean others can't possibly exist!

One that comes to my mind is recipriprocity.For example, if the vehicle was previously registered and the owner paid a wheel tax in another jurisdiction, there may be a a reciprocity agreement with Cook County, Evanston, or another jurisdiction in place which exempts the owner from registering and paying a 2nd wheel tax in one year.

I only didn't fight my sticker ticket because I know the police ticketed In direct response to complaints. Those complaints were legitimate, and the ticket was entirely valid.

But Glendale Heights has only 1 sticker, and that sticker isn't specifically for street parking, and my property at the time did not have "no trespassing" signs posted. It does now.

If the police came on a private parking lot, without a complain registered or consent of management, especially if that parking lot was posted in any way "residents only" and/or "no trespassing", There is legal basis for fighting that ticket. But don't take my word, give me a few minutes, and I will provide an opinion, from a real attorney, licensed in the state of Illinois.

OK, I'm back, and it didn't take very long to find one. From a legal advice site, http://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/ca...nd--10915.html
Quote:
Can the police trespass onto private property and give a failure to display city sticker citation

answer:
Quote:
From
Steven H. Fagan. This atorney is licensed in the state of Illinois
In my opinion, there is a legal basis for challenging such a violation. For instance, there is no way for the ticketing officer to tell whether the vehicle is even capable of operation, unlike a vehicle which is parked on a public highway. The real question is whether the ticket, which is a non-moving violation involving a fine only is worth fighting about. Hiring an attorney to fight a fine only ticket that won't in any way affect your driving record sounds like a bad deal to me. If you fear this will happen frequently, you only have two options: 1) be prepared to fight it every time, or 2) buy a city sticker and keep it up to date.
Now, if you question whether this is a real attorney, licensed in the state of Illinois, go to the Illinois Department of Professional Regulation and look him up!

Yes, it appears you apparently can fight this type of ticket, and in the opinion of an actual licensed attorney, there is a legal basis for challenging in court. You can read the rest of the specifics by going to the link provided. Of course, that attorney also only gave one "for instance"' but there are more! I found some really interesting info regarding police entering private property, and will post it, if you want.

This is a real legal opinion. Yours is not.

Of course, whether or not it's worth fighting? Well, it's looking more winnable by the minute. I've won in court on less.

Last edited by sarabeth1111; 12-15-2011 at 05:14 AM..
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Old 12-15-2011, 06:11 AM
 
Location: Oak Park, IL
5,520 posts, read 11,972,763 times
Reputation: 3820
Drover is an attorney.
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Old 12-15-2011, 07:43 AM
 
Location: Berwyn, IL
2,414 posts, read 5,236,959 times
Reputation: 1121
::michaeljacksonpopcorn.gif::

I enjoy hearing from the crazies who think their rights as an American are being violated when they get ticketed for municipal/local ordinances.
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Old 12-15-2011, 07:50 AM
 
Location: Lake Arlington Heights, IL
5,481 posts, read 10,057,369 times
Reputation: 2784
Spock to Kirk: Jim, this is a fascinating debate. However I find it quite illogical that humans spend so much time debating a subject that is so insignificant in the larger scale of the universe
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Old 12-15-2011, 07:52 AM
 
Location: Berwyn, IL
2,414 posts, read 5,236,959 times
Reputation: 1121
Quote:
Originally Posted by cubssoxfan View Post
Spock to Kirk: Jim, this is a fascinating debate. However I find it quite illogical that humans spend so much time debating a subject that is so insignificant in the larger scale of the universe
Ha, in that case most of C-D would be moot. It's mostly devolved into petty rantings and such. But it still makes my time pass quickly, so I get enjoyment from it.
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Old 12-15-2011, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Full time RV"er
2,403 posts, read 5,620,317 times
Reputation: 1459
[quote=MannheimMadman;22129842]::michaeljacksonpopcorn.gif::

I enjoy hearing from the crazies who think their rights as an American are being violated when they get ticketed for municipal/local ordinances.[/quote] Yep , Just another UN-educated statement. That is why the Cities get away with them.
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Old 12-15-2011, 08:21 AM
 
Location: Lake Arlington Heights, IL
5,481 posts, read 10,057,369 times
Reputation: 2784
[quote=Fighter 1;22130351]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MannheimMadman View Post
::michaeljacksonpopcorn.gif::

I enjoy hearing from the crazies who think their rights as an American are being violated when they get ticketed for municipal/local ordinances.[/quote] Yep , Just another UN-educated statement. That is why the Cities get away with them.
it's cool. I guess you are blessed with copious amounts of time and money to fight these injustices. Me? Not worth the $ to fight it. I'll save the fight for those times where I really feel"wronged" by "the man". Not being snarky, just different perspectives.
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