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I think Orland, Tinley, Palos will continue to be good as they are but I see the more troubled southern suburbs ie country club hills, harvey, robbins, cal city, etc continuing to go downhill.
Frankfort is objectively the most affluent burb in the southwest, more so then orland.
Frankfort is objectively the most affluent burb in the southwest, more so then orland.
The devastating effect of massive property devaluation that came along with the collapse of the real estate bubble means that Frankfort has seen some of the most whipsawed property owners -- combined with poor options for nearby employment the relative potential for erosion of value is still very high.
Listing prices in Orland Park have come back much more strongly, this is likely due to a combination of factors including more tolerable total tax burden, greater access to a wider variety of jobs, and generally mature developments -- while there are some folks that absolutely adore a "new house" the potential Pandora's box of buying in an unfinished development give the long term resale edge to more established communities...
While there is little argument that homes in farther away places like Frankfort are generally larger and typically did come with all kinds of lavish extras, the long term orientation of real estate makes it harder to say that value proposition is really there... Just like folks tend to realize that a "used top of the line luxury car" takes a huge depreciation hit as potential buyers realize that anything that "goes wrong" is going to mean an expensive trip to a specialized mechanic, so to do buyers tend to be wary of the places with now aging "bells and whistles" -- fancy home theaters that are no longer up-to-date, whole house music from firms that are out of business, costly to maintain outdoor pools / hot tubs, and once extrvangant but now dated custom finishes all age more quickly than more basic "good bones" type homes...
I can honestly say that in all of my years living in Chicago and working with and knowing hundreds of people, I don't know a single person who has considered moving to the south suburbs that didn't originally grow up there. That alone says there is a problem.
But towns like Frankfort, Tinley, and Orland will be able to soak up enough well-off residents to stay appealing in the for quite some time, even if the contrast between them and other suburbs in the vicinity continues to grow.
I can honestly say that in all of my years living in Chicago and working with and knowing hundreds of people, I don't know a single person who has considered moving to the south suburbs that didn't originally grow up there. That alone says there is a problem.
But towns like Frankfort, Tinley, and Orland will be able to soak up enough well-off residents to stay appealing in the for quite some time, even if the contrast between them and other suburbs in the vicinity continues to grow.
Yeah, I think this is inaccurate. Im going to ask some more members of my community to join this forum, it seems the overwhelming voice that drowns out all other decent places on this forum are west suburbanites.
My neighbors are transplants from Naperville. They both work in the city, they grew tired commute times due to difficult parking at naperville metra. After alot of hunting around they moved to Frankfort, (loved the wooded semi rural feel) and actually have a shorter commute to work with the better parking situation. They both quote 1 hour door to door. I will ask them to join the forum as we need more voices on this forum.
Furthermore, I know another couple that currently work with Hinsdale Orthospine associates. The gentlemen is an attending ortho spine surgeon out of hinsdale and silver cross. He could have lived any place but really likes the feel of Frankfort.
I have good friends who live in University Village in the city. They have looked all over, as the man has a job involving alot of travel, he always liked Frankfort, but he flies out of Ohare and that made him hesitant (distance). Now thhat I-57 has been connected to 294, he is actively looking and bidding on houses in Frankfort. Lost the first one due to multiple bid situation.
Many examples.
As for contrast to nearby vicinity, Id like to point out that Frankfort is not surrounded immediately by harvey, cal city, ford heights etc. its bordered by Tinley to its east , Orland to the north (the major retail section of it), intertwined with Mokena, and New Lenox to the west. Hardly super ghetto areas as anyone north of i-55 seems to think
I can honestly say that in all of my years living in Chicago and working with and knowing hundreds of people, I don't know a single person who has considered moving to the south suburbs that didn't originally grow up there. That alone says there is a problem.
My experience has been the same. I also know people who grew up in the south suburbs and moved to the western suburbs as soon as they were on their own. I've never heard of a single person doing the opposite.
The devastating effect of massive property devaluation that came along with the collapse of the real estate bubble means that Frankfort has seen some of the most whipsawed property owners -- combined with poor options for nearby employment the relative potential for erosion of value is still very high.
Listing prices in Orland Park have come back much more strongly, this is likely due to a combination of factors including more tolerable total tax burden, greater access to a wider variety of jobs, and generally mature developments -- while there are some folks that absolutely adore a "new house" the potential Pandora's box of buying in an unfinished development give the long term resale edge to more established communities...
While there is little argument that homes in farther away places like Frankfort are generally larger and typically did come with all kinds of lavish extras, the long term orientation of real estate makes it harder to say that value proposition is really there... Just like folks tend to realize that a "used top of the line luxury car" takes a huge depreciation hit as potential buyers realize that anything that "goes wrong" is going to mean an expensive trip to a specialized mechanic, so to do buyers tend to be wary of the places with now aging "bells and whistles" -- fancy home theaters that are no longer up-to-date, whole house music from firms that are out of business, costly to maintain outdoor pools / hot tubs, and once extrvangant but now dated custom finishes all age more quickly than more basic "good bones" type homes...
"The devastating effect of massive property devaluation that came along with the collapse of the real estate bubble means that Frankfort has seen some of the most whipsawed property owners -- combined with poor options for nearby employment the relative potential for erosion of value is still very high."
devastating? not quite. Frankfort has not been devastated or gone into a decline or a terminal nose dive. Prices certainly did come down and they needed to, prices here were grossly inflated, though that did creat a fire sale of foreclosures and drops in property values it did not tank the village. As a matter of fact there are HARDLY any foreclosures left here as compared to 2007-2009. The fire sales, and the large amount of foreclosures has been all but soaked up, and now the property values are back on the rise! Existing inventory is going, and now there has again been a big uptick in new home constructions, uncompleted subdivisions are nearly complete everywhere, we will see how that effects things as we dont want a new mini housing bubble to burst here. I dont think so because the prices are more in line, loaning of money and appraisal process has been drastically cleaned up, and the village is going through an arduous multiyear process to re-assess everything and property taxes are coming DOWN. Regardless of your blanket statements resale is going UP. Not just cheaper houses, but high end 900-1 million dollar houses are appraising and getting closed on with minimal issues. This is all very good. Redfin property taxes are not reflecting the eventual property tax, as the village is very pro active and re-assessing property at Village level, not at will county level with 10's of thousands of back logged property tax appeal cases. All you have to do is submit your appraisal or your HUD statement on closing and the village will adjust your assessment accordingly, simple.
My first house i bought in 2009, apprecaited by $55,000 by the time I sold it 4 years later in 2013.
"Listing prices in Orland Park have come back much more strongly, this is likely due to a combination of factors including more tolerable total tax burden, greater access to a wider variety of jobs, and generally mature developments -- while there are some folks that absolutely adore a "new house" the potential Pandora's box of buying in an unfinished development give the long term resale edge to more established communities..."
What is your objective data that orland has come back "much more strongly" I dont see this as the case, House prices in both frankfort and orland are comparable, there is not a "strong" disparity. I know this quite well as ive been looking at alot of houses weekend after weekend with a relative who is looking in orland and frankfort, after looking at all the comps, recent sales, comparitively speaking what you are saying is not true. Orland houses prices are not blowing away frankforts.
You seem to be convinced that Frankfort is nothing more then a cornfield with mcmansions in it that are all post 2006. You are wrong in this assumption, there are many many many mature developments. Abbey woods around for 22 years, Butternut creek woods a huge subdivision rivaling anything up north has been around for more then 30 years. I invite you to take a ride through these places in the heart of Frankfort and through and around the downtown area. Houses been around since 1870's, old victorians that have been renovated. Beautiful.
Property taxes are coming down as i mentioned above. The school tax levy is completely stable, the school system finances are completely balanced with no debt and very very healthy. The schools performances are ever improving, your own sources that you site such as illinois report care can confirm what I am saying.
The median house hold income herei s $109k. We pay our taxes and we donate more on top of that to our schools and village, the people here take pride and ownership of the village, something you wont find in a less cohesive place as orland, orland has its regional retail center powerhouse, that runs orland.
Poor or lack of high paying jobs? I am of course biased because of my field, but I can tell you that is not true. RN's, Respiratory Therapists, Physical Therapists, Occupational Therapists, social workers, case managers, and scores of other ancillary medical staff, and a very high presence of M.D.'s you will find in Frankfort. Large nearby employers such as Silver Cross (moved from joliet to new lenox, state of the art and brand new), Palos, Christ, St James, and all the hospitals in NWI, and everything south of us, Riverside medical group and all its associated hospitals and clinics in bourbonaisse, bradlely, kankakee a significant amount of them reside in Frankfort due to its more affluence and feel to other surrounding areas. Panduit employees, Ozinga employees, many small business owners, restaraunt owners, distillery owners, and then of course you have many people who work in the city. I dont see how a town with a median household income rivaling the very top is filled with a bunch of people who cant find work nearby. Im not saying its schaumburg with a motorola parked in it but not every suburb in the west can even claim that.
"While there is little argument that homes in farther away places like Frankfort are generally larger and typically did come with all kinds of lavish extras, the long term orientation of real estate makes it harder to say that value proposition is really there... Just like folks tend to realize that a "used top of the line luxury car" takes a huge depreciation hit as potential buyers realize that anything that "goes wrong" is going to mean an expensive trip to a specialized mechanic, so to do buyers tend to be wary of the places with now aging "bells and whistles" -- fancy home theaters that are no longer up-to-date, whole house music from firms that are out of business, costly to maintain outdoor pools / hot tubs, and once extrvangant but now dated custom finishes all age more quickly than more basic "good bones" type homes.."
Houses with bells and whistles and home theaters? this is your arguement why frankfort is not a good value proposition? Thats ridiculous. I think you are saying this because you think i live in frankfort for purely materialistic reasons that a house here will get me. As far as good bones??? Frankfort does not allow corporate style people come in here and build 50 - 100 tract style homes all built like ****. The building code here is one of the toughest as many of my builder friends who work here and in other suburbs attest to. Only private contractors are allowed to build, and getting a building permit is pretty involved process.
Walmart wanted to build here, and offered to pay more then its due of property tax, the residents all cohesivley said no. This is an aware and involved community.
I find it funny how you always like to use cars as metaphors when replying to my posts about Frankfort. I assure you I am an educated person and such analogies are not necessary, and are a bit condescending. Though I doubt its intentional as anyone north of the southwest has an inherent condescending bias and disgust to any place south. They think its all harvey and ford heights. They make no distinction between, south and southwest. THe contrast betweent he two is massive.
I however, realize im not going to change anyones mind here on this forum after reading it. I have talked to some friends and neighbors over dinner or what not and this forum and the impressions given of frankfort by western suburbanites, and they were all genuinely suprised. I will link them to these convos and get more people from my community on the board.
Its people like me and many many many others that need to stay here, be pro active here, to keep things great here as they are. We arent going get up and go to hinsdale, and i assure you many of us have the full capability to do so. Quality people makes a quality place. It exists here, not just in the western and northern suburbs. Sorry that im such a squeaky wheel, I know western and northern suburbanites want to hear nothing of what Im saying.
Yeah, I think this is inaccurate. Im going to ask some more members of my community to join this forum, it seems the overwhelming voice that drowns out all other decent places on this forum are west suburbanites.
My neighbors are transplants from Naperville. They both work in the city, they grew tired commute times due to difficult parking at naperville metra. After alot of hunting around they moved to Frankfort, (loved the wooded semi rural feel) and actually have a shorter commute to work with the better parking situation. They both quote 1 hour door to door. I will ask them to join the forum as we need more voices on this forum.
Furthermore, I know another couple that currently work with Hinsdale Orthospine associates. The gentlemen is an attending ortho spine surgeon out of hinsdale and silver cross. He could have lived any place but really likes the feel of Frankfort.
I have good friends who live in University Village in the city. They have looked all over, as the man has a job involving alot of travel, he always liked Frankfort, but he flies out of Ohare and that made him hesitant (distance). Now thhat I-57 has been connected to 294, he is actively looking and bidding on houses in Frankfort. Lost the first one due to multiple bid situation.
Many examples.
As for contrast to nearby vicinity, Id like to point out that Frankfort is not surrounded immediately by harvey, cal city, ford heights etc. its bordered by Tinley to its east , Orland to the north (the major retail section of it), intertwined with Mokena, and New Lenox to the west. Hardly super ghetto areas as anyone north of i-55 seems to think
I'm going to have to call BS on the bold. There is no metra station in Frankfort. If they use either station in Mokena there is no possible way they make their commute in an hour door to door.
My commute takes nearly an hour when you factor in walking, waiting for the train, the train ride itself and walking to my office. That's from Elmhurst with a 10 minute walk on the home end and 27 minute train ride. To do that from Frankfort is simply not possible.
My experience has been the same. I also know people who grew up in the south suburbs and moved to the western suburbs as soon as they were on their own. I've never heard of a single person doing the opposite.
I'm going to have to call BS on the bold. There is no metra station in Frankfort. If they use the station in Mokena there is no possible way they make their commute in an hour door to door.
My commute takes nearly an hour when you factor in walking, waiting for the train, the train ride itself and walking to my office. That's from Elmhurst with a 10 minute walk on the home end and 27 minute train ride. To do that from Frankfort is simply not possible.
The train ride itself is 58 minutes. If they live in Frankfort they cannot get to the station, park the car and be on the train in 2 minutes. There is most likely walking on the Chicago end as well. It's just not possible, even with the few express trains offered on the Rock Island line. Check the schedule out yourself and you'll see what I mean.
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The boom - bust cycle is stll very troubling...
