Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover
Uhhhmmmm, no, actually, I'm not.
Of course not, because you refuse to acknowledge the disconnect between the two positions you implicitly and explicitly advocate; namely that smokers should take their habit to a private designation while you cheer on the legislative destruction of those private designations.
I didn't ask you to. Neither did anyone else. Smoking in most workplaces and most other places of public accommodation had already been nixed by employers and property managers before any piece of legislation came around to mandate it.
And in most of these places, the marketplace had already determined that smoking was an undesirable activity long before the government stepped in and said so. Oh, and way to equate playgrounds and daycares with bars. I certainly hope, for your children's sake, that you're sharp enough to make the distinction, because I don't have a lot of sympathy for parents who see them as equivalents, though God help the children of such parents.  Please tell me you didn't raise your child(ren) in a bar mistaking it as a day care -- or, for that matter, any other explicitly adult facilities in which smoking is now banned, such as casinos or OTB facilities or hookah bars. If you can't tell the difference between these places and playgrounds and daycares, there isn't a piece of legislation this side of totalitarianism that can help your children or anyone else's children.
The fact of the matter is that Smoking Nazis have little if any concern for personal preference. It's pretty simple: where people are permitted to smoke in a private setting, don't go there if you don't like it. (The intolerance of any such choice is evident by the hissy fit the Smoking Nazis have for any corner of existence where smoking may occur.)
For now, anyway; though I gather from your tone that you wouldn't mind if these erstwhile smoking redoubts were legislated out of existence.
People are simply saying that Smoking Nazis can stay away from private institutions where smoking is a common undertaking, such as bars and casinos.
Nor is it my fault that you aren't intellectually taut enough to acknowledge that my argument comes from a public policy position rather than a personal interest position.
Pure economic ignorance. Private business establishments certainly do have the right to conduct a risk-benefit analysis of the health of its patrons versus the potential harm; the very existence of private enterprise requires it. Otherwise every restaurant would ostensibly be vegetarian (can't serve any saturated fats to our customers lest their arteries become clogged!), every car dealership would be required to sell tanks to their customers (can't sell regular cars to our customers because they'll be crushed like tin cans in an accident!), every bike would come with training wheels (can't let our customers risk injury by falling over!), and every house would be built with padded walls (can't let Little Junior who's just learning to walk stumble sideways and hit his head against a wall and risk injury!).
Fine, then don't patronize private businesses where you'll be exposed to said smoke. It's a much simpler solution than Nanny State legislation. |
1) How does the banning of smoking in public sectors equate to smoking being banned in private. What private sector of your private life is smoking being banned from? Can you not smoke in your own home, car, property? Am i missing somthing. I think the problem stems not from my lack of acknowledgement of positions i supposidly advocate, but rather from your lack of ability to distinguish public and private realms of society.
2) And my point about noting various places smoking is not allowed is to point out the fallacy of your arguement. Note how when smoking was banned from Hostpitals, schools, play grounds, elevators, malls, etc. no one really complained. In fact, the ban seemed quite logical to many. But as soon as smoking is banned from bars it is " big brother". Explain this logic to me. Do the dangers posed by cigarrette smoke some how change when one goes from smoking in a hospital or mall to a bar? No they don't. The fact of the matter is everyone is all liquiored up and they just want to smoke their cigs. It is winter and its cold and they have to take it outside so they *****. When it gets warmer no one will be complaining. Go to a bar in california or arizona or new york and youll see patrons enjoying their cigarrettes in their designated areas outside. No one freaks out and throws a hissy fit. People are simply being babies because they would rather subjegate everyone to their smoke rather than stand in the cold.
3) I am not going to bother to comment about your fictional "smoking nazi "issues.
4) economic ignorance. I find that funny seeing as how you have no economic credentials, and are supposidly in school. To compare risk benefit analysis with actual harm is sophmoric. Serving food cleared by the FDA or selling a bike with out training wheels or a small car (all of which if the consumer uses properly pose no heath risk to them or to others, save tragic accidents) is not related to a business entity subjegating its patrons to things that do pose a heath risk to others, regardless of how they are used.
5)Intellectually tout? Personally i dont know where on earth your arguement comes from, but it is not logical. Especially when you carry on about fictional nazi entities that do not exist. apparantly you are under the impression that business establishments maintain certain rights that supercede the publics right to health simply because they are privately owned. Give me a day and ill fish out some old college books so i can give some supreme court decisions(some from even the great depression era) that note private business establishments do not have the right to put their employees or patrons at risk.
6) you are very confused. Private business establishment means private ownership, not private rights.
LOL nanny state? Okay, bill.
good day
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01-17-2008, 12:10 PM
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