Smoking -- attitudes in Chicagoland

[Chinolala]

I agree with you, j33. That incident is a perfect example on how there will be times, albeit, perhaps few, where everyone, including the staff are smokers and there are no non-smokers in an establishment at the time. The weather was awful, there were no games on at the time, it was midnight and it was mainly regulars from the area that can walk to that particular bar. Upon realizing that no one had come in for more than an hour, the bartenders and patrons decided to light up.

[sukwoo]

Originally Posted by Drover

Great. We're even starting to develop our own Stasi.

Drover, the proper term is Gestapo. Don't forget, apparently we're using the Nazi * terminology here.



* Godwin's Law reference here.

[stewartthrower]

Originally Posted by j33

Why?

For the most part, I like that there is now no smoking in bars. But c'mon, a small group of people were the only group of people in the bar, they all wanted a cigarette, so they all had one. So what. You weren't there, they weren't hurting you by this action ... had you been there, would you have been one of those people who would have gone along, and then run off to the bathroom to call 311 to tattle.

No! If I were there. I would have called right there in front of them. Perhaps these people would have the decency to ask if I minded before lighting up. But I doubt it based on the attitudes of most smokers. They are oblivious to the fact that it is a nuisance and a health risks to others.

[NYrules]

Originally Posted by stewartthrower

No! If I were there. I would have called right there in front of them. Perhaps these people would have the decency to ask if I minded before lighting up. But I doubt it based on the attitudes of most smokers. They are oblivious to the fact that it is a nuisance and a health risks to others.

Thank you! I second that! You have no right to poision or kill someone else with your second hand smoke! It's been illegal to burn leaves in Chicago for what 50 years because it made people sick, but smoking in a confined space was fine? What is wrong with this picture? It's about time Springfield woke up and saw the light.

[Chinolala]

Originally Posted by stewartthrower

No! If I were there. I would have called right there in front of them. Perhaps these people would have the decency to ask if I minded before lighting up. But I doubt it based on the attitudes of most smokers. They are oblivious to the fact that it is a nuisance and a health risks to others.

You would not have had to call because if you had been there, they would not have smoked. If you had read my post thoroughly, you would have known that all of the people in the bar at that time were smokers and no new customers had walked into the bar in over an hour. There were no non smokers to ask. It was already 2 hours shy of closing and really cold outside so it had slowed down. The point of this being was that everyone in the bar at the time were smokers. And between midnight and 2:00 a.m. no new patrons came in.

[stewartthrower]

Originally Posted by lisak64

You would not have had to call because if you had been there, they would not have smoked. If you had read my post thoroughly, you would have known that all of the people in the bar at that time were smokers and no new customers had walked into the bar in over an hour. There were no non smokers to ask. It was already 2 hours shy of closing and really cold outside so it had slowed down. The point of this being was that everyone in the bar at the time were smokers. And between midnight and 2:00 a.m. no new patrons came in.

Lisa, I read your post and I'll give you that. I was responding to the person who suggested that I would run to the bathroom to make my call. I still stand by my opinion that in general smokers could give a crap about anyone else, not even their own kids. I don't want to hear the excuses. It is what it is. It's a non-smoking state, and if you don't like it. Move to Indiana or Wisconsin, and wait until they get their heads our of their butts too.

[NYrules]

Originally Posted by stewartthrower

Lisa, I read your post and I'll give you that. I was responding to the person who suggested that I would run to the bathroom to make my call. I still stand by my opinion that in general smokers could give a crap about anyone else, not even their own kids. I don't want to hear the excuses. It is what it is. It's a non-smoking state, and if you don't like it. Move to Indiana or Wisconsin, and wait until they get their heads our of their butts too.

Wisconsin is a smart state and almost always follows suit with what IL does. They will sit back watch what plays out here for a year or two, see that not only will businesses not faulter, but actually grow instead (Don't believe me? Take a walk down Pacific Beach in San Diego at night and look at those bars... They are packed, you can't even get in the door they are so crowded and guess what? They are all no smoking) and then WI will pass a similar ban.

[Frank_Carbonni]

Originally Posted by NYrules

Thank you! I second that! You have no right to poision or kill someone else with your second hand smoke! It's been illegal to burn leaves in Chicago for what 50 years because it made people sick, but smoking in a confined space was fine? What is wrong with this picture? It's about time Springfield woke up and saw the light.

Have you actually seen any of the studies applying to secondhand smoke?

I would like to know that if you have any idea as to the risks involved and are lying or if you are completely ignorant and just acting really self-righteous because you don't like smoking and it is easier to rant and rave about killing people than to admit you are a whiny nitpicker.

Just asking.

[NYrules]

Originally Posted by Frank_Carbonni

Have you actually seen any of the studies applying to secondhand smoke?

I would like to know that if you have any idea as to the risks involved and are lying or if you are completely ignorant and just acting really self-righteous because you don't like smoking and it is easier to rant and rave about killing people than to admit you are a whiny nitpicker.

Just asking.

I'd rather be a whiny nitpicker than a complete idiot like anyone doubting the dangers of second hand smoke. Apparently the whinny nitpickers, you know; doctors, professors, scientists at the Mayo Clinic would concur with my arguement over yours. Secondhand smoke: Avoid dangers in the air you breathe - MayoClinic.com

And here is another study from the whinners over at the American Lung Cancer Assoc. Secondhand Smoke and Your Family - American Lung Association site

Here is a little study done by doctors about kids being exposed to second hand smoke. Children who breathe secondhand smoke are more likely to suffer from pneumonia, bronchitis, and other lung diseases. Those little whinners shouldn't be able to dine out with mom and dad right without being subjected to getting poisioned right? What a bunch of little whinners.

Overall for all the doctors and scientists that have studied this very topic, what a bunch of WHINNERS! LOL

[Frank_Carbonni]

Here is the largest cohort study ever conducted on secondhand smoke:

Environmental tobacco smoke and tobacco related mortality in a prospective study of Californians, 1960-98 -- Enstrom and Kabat 326 (7398): 1057 -- BMJ

It found a statistically insignificant (ultimately inconclusive given the standards used) decreases in lung cancer and heart disease.

Here is the largest case control study ever conducted on secondhand smoke:

http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/r...90/19/1440.pdf

It found small statistically insignificant (ultimately inconclusive given the standards used, a margin of error so wide that neither a decrease or increase in risk is out of the question) increase in lung cancer in the people who work around secondhand smoke and the spouses of smokers. However, it did find a statistically significant decrease in lung cancer in children and people exposed as children to secondhand smoke.

The study is pretty funny because of the press release the WHO issued after it came out and people like me pointed out how not only were the RRs lower than the WHO claimed, there was also a beneficial result as well:

Passive Smoking Does Cause Lung Cancer

(Notice how they completely left out the result for children)

And this little study from Oak Ridge National Laboratory that found that the amount of cigarette smoke breathed in by non-smokers is about six cigarettes a year:

Oak Ridge National Laboratory - Exposures to second-hand smoke lower than believed, ORNL study finds