Evanston vs. New Trier (Schaumburg, Skokie: section 8, apartments, magnet schools)

[chet everett]

BIG NEWS! Baskin-Robbins has THIRTY - ONE Flavors!

If your favorite flavor is Cashew Carmel Crunch and I prefer Butter Pecan but in the "real world" more people buy vanilla than anything else should it matter?

The "real world" of California or Texas demographics is almost certainly considerably different than that of Rockford IL, NYC or London or Charlotte North Carolina. I just do not buy the argument that the "diversity" of one school or perceived lack of same at another is something that there is any kind of yardstick for.

For measures that there are yardsticks for, like college acceptance, average ACT score, variety and success in AP classes and virtually any measure on the Illinois State School Report Card New Trier is miles ahead of ETHS.

Should EVERY parent attempt to send their child to New Trier? Obviously not, no more than every ice cream eater should prefer Carmel Cashew Crunch.

When one broadens the question to what other suburban high schools merit special attention the list grows -- Hinsdale Central is statistically closest to New Trier on the standardized "Praire State Achievment Test", Stevenson, Deerfield and Lake Forest are all very tightly clustered. The further down one goes, but still in the 80+% achievment the wider the net grows, though it does not include ETHS or OPRF, any regular high school in Kane Country or southern Cook, along with some other disappointing realities.

I guess it is sort of like finding out that Shermans Ice Cream has no where near the butter fat as Oberwies --doesn't make Mackinac Island Fudge or Amaretto Cherry Amour any less yummy, but just not as statisticaly rich as Udderlly Truffles...

If one decides to also consider schools like Payton and Northside I guess that is like inviting Charlie Trotter or Grant Achatz to whip up a quart or two of frozen delights -- clearly not something available to the general public.

[aragx6]

How is there no yardstick for diversity? It's simple demographic information- available on the Interactive Illinois Report Card:

New Trier: 88% white, 8% Asian, 2.1% Hispanic, .9% multiracial, .7% black and only 2% low income.

Evanston: 47.4% white, 36.6% black, 10% Hispanic, 3.2% Asian, 2.5% multiracial and 34% low income.

Which of those seems most like "the real world" to you guys? People can and should be allowed to send their kids wherever they want, I would never argue that. But to say that there are ways to measure performance (ACT scores, college acceptance rates, etc.) and not diversity (both racial and economic) is just untrue.

[cdc3217]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

But alas, there are downsides to New Trier as well. Nearly every kid I've ever met from that school was a horrible spoiled brat with a massive sense of entitlement who couldn't take criticism. I think I'd prefer to have a few poor kids in the school to give my child a balanced perspective on life.

As someone who grew up with a "balanced perspective" - I work a lot more with the horrible spoiled brats with massive senses of entitlement and no ability to take criticism than up-by-the-bootstraps-types. Dealing with New Trier-ites is a real world skill as well, I suspect.

[Humboldt1]

Chet,

You know way way too much about ice cream

I like reading your comments as you do not BS. I am sure together we can work together to get people out of their comfort zones and be honest about how they really feel on tough issues.

[Humboldt1]

If New Trier isn't exclusive enough for you send your kids to Northshore Community. It is like a small campus and mostly super rich kids, though they do subsidize a very small number of kids from the inner city to make themselves feel good and say they appreciate diversity.

I don't know their test scores but I am sure someone can publish them, which are surely higher than New Trier or Evanston or even any of the prep schools in Chicago.

And I care more about test scores than diversity as I believe do most of us if we are honest with ourselves.

Of course, unless you are a lottery winner from the city or have parents who work at the school or have parents making in excess of $200M a year it may be tough for you to get in.

I spent summers at Culver Military Academy in Indiana with the super rich so I know how good some of them have it. Life is just a stacked deck with them on a whole different playing field than most of us. One kid, from Mexico, complained to me about how the food sucked and how he missed his personal chef (he was 12 years old). It was like lifestyles of the rich and famous with some kids showing up in limos and others in ferraris and porsches.

[cohdane]

Here's an honest opinion.

We're looking for a home on the north shore or northwest suburbs.

I grew up in North Austin (till it got too rough and my family moved to Niles). Hated Niles-- it was too bland. I've lived in Atlanta, Hartford, the near west side of Chicago and Jamaica Plain, MA (arguably one of the most diverse communities in the country-- racially, ethnically, economically, religiously-- you name it).

I will not consider Evanston. Even though I love the houses there, love the scene and the prices are right.

Why? A kid was shot in the neck near the high school just over a year ago. And this post from these forums...

" After looking at Evanston for a month, I've learned that the area that borders the highschool seems to be problematic. I think it may be drugs, violence, maybe gangs. Just give yourself a "buffer" zone around the HS and avoid Church, Dodge, etc."

...has put the kaibosh on even thinking about raising my less-than-street-smart son in Evanston. He simply doesn't display the instincts required to navigate a rougher area.

As for "family friendly" being a racist code-word-- come on. Family friendly means a lack of bullets in necks. My neighborhoods in Atlanta and Hartford were hardly lily white. And they were friendly for families of all races. If Evanston were safer, I'd be surfing for a house there tonight. I'm just not willing to risk my son's safety on it.

[Humboldt1]

I disagree. "Family friendly" means rich and white and asian in reference to wilmette vs evanston. Most of the diversity you see in many of the northshore neighborhoods is the help. Sorry, but true.

Not uncommon to see black and hispanic ladies wheeling around blond toddlers.

I do not envy kids who are not raised by their parents who are too busy making big bucks to live in those areas.

[chet everett]

You can find boatloads of people with huge money living in the oddest places -- some are inconvenient, or unsafe or creepy. It doesn't matter.

Not every kid who goes to a top rated high school like New Trier is going to do well. For some kids it probably makes more sense to go to school where they will be more of stand out and maybe have a better shot at a great career.

That is not the same as owning a house in a top rated district -- generally that is a can't miss proposition. It will be more desirable than the same style/size home in a similar location in district that is not as highly rated -- smart people will in effect be in competition to buy that home even if they don't currently have kids...

Safer towns are similarly more valuable than "more colorful" towns, and towns close to diverse employment are more valuable than those with limited options...

It is not hard to figure out!

[cohdane]

I disagree back.

If the crime stats were the same and the neighborhood near the high school didn't have such a rough rep, most people* would rate Evanston as "family friendly," too.

FYI, these are the 2006 Evanston/Wilmette crime stats per 100,000 off City Data. Knowing nothing about race, where would you want to raise a kid?

Robberies 179/7
Assaults 130/7
Burglaries 1133/130
Thefts 2595/1207
Overall Crime Index 289/69

*I'm not naive enough to believe that there isn't someone hiding behind the "family friendly" issue as a front for their own bigotry. I'm sure some do. But painting everyone with that brush is unfair.

[edsg25]

Originally Posted by cohdane

I disagree back.

If the crime stats were the same and the neighborhood near the high school didn't have such a rough rep, most people* would rate Evanston as "family friendly," too.

FYI, these are the 2006 Evanston/Wilmette crime stats per 100,000 off City Data. Knowing nothing about race, where would you want to raise a kid?

Robberies 179/7
Assaults 130/7
Burglaries 1133/130
Thefts 2595/1207
Overall Crime Index 289/69

*I'm not naive enough to believe that there isn't someone hiding behind the "family friendly" issue as a front for their own bigotry. I'm sure some do. But painting everyone with that brush is unfair.

Given the fact the Wilmette kid probably spends more time around Fountain Square and the Century theatres than he does around Green Bay and Wilmette Ave., I'm not so sure it matters.

Is my little Wilmette kid going to stay inside his nice little house on Sheridan Road and never get out in the big, bad world? And will the kid living down Sheridan Road in Evanston face bullets every time he walks out the door?

C'mon. If Evanston is so unsafe, than Wilmette is screwed. Other than going to HS, I would imagine that Wilmette kids are more likely to spend time in Evanston than in Winnetka. Unless they like boredom.

And does any of this really reflect the direction that Evanston is going? Nobody here seems to address that critical issue, one that would be nice to know what people think:

ISN'T EVANSTON, FOR BETTER OR WORSE, GOING FAR MORE UPSCALE THROUGH GENTRIFICATION?

Nowhere on the North Shore do you see large scale transformation the way you do in Evanston.

Does anyone really believe the city's westside areas centered around ETHS and Dodge and Church is going to stay low income and heavily black? The real estate pressures (once the market recovers) will be intense. This is, of course, not a good thing, but a real thing.

Evanston property is very valuable. I see a time that for such a large suburb, it will be a very wealthy place, far more so than similiarly sized Skokie.