Evanston vs. New Trier (Wilmette: appointed, high schools, gated)

[Anthera]

Originally Posted by edsg25

well, that sure seems like the sanitized version of the contraversy. The more realistic one in the mid 1960's when NTE was to be split from NTW was how to get the Jewish kids (Glencoe and west Wilmette) into the new school and keep NTE the "real" New Trier.

How is this the "sanitized " version of when NT recently developed its freshman campus? If there is another version I would like to hear it. As I stated, I wasn't there in the 1960's, but my comments were not about the 1960's.

[edsg25]

I am mildly, but sadly amused by the comments that have been registered regarding how I saw Evanston and New Trier as shining lights in a previous era compared to what they are today. While the era in question was "mine", as both a parent and as a life-long teacher, my desire would be for the education our kids receive to not only be different, but better than mine.

It isn't.

You cannot separate ETHS and NT from American education. And American education today, even among the best public high schools, is on the critical list. The problems that we allow to fester in society come through the door on both Dodge and Winnetka Avenues just like they do everywhere else. And the very society that allows those festerng problems is the kind that doesn't fund nor care for its public schools to the degree that it did when good schools were the hallmark of a community.

Our schools are loaded with every type of social problem there is out there and with parents who shirk their responsiblities and expect the schools to raise their children. True education at schools like New Trier are more designed to get the best kids into the best colleges to get the best jobs. There is little about the education these kids are receiving that deals with anything but the bottom line issues of $$$$$$$. And while those earlier times often had a stiffling aspect about them, a sense of authority that said in both school and home "you will do this" and that authority was frankly unsympathic to the values of choice and free will, it was still able to generate standards and expectations that are unheard of in our schools today. Yet, the pendulum did have to swing past the rigidity of the 1950's and even the 1960's; but that pendulum has swung far more in the direction of permissiveness and apathy in dealing with real issues than the golden mean that was crossed when the swing got going.

Areas similiar to the North Shore along the northeast corridor or in California have seen massive abandonment of high income parents placing their kids in the once vaunted public schools. To our coastal counterparts, enrolling a student at New Trier or Stevenson and certainly ETHS is a quaint relic of the past.

And locally, when you look at the NT-ETHS issue, Evanston is hardly spoken of in the breathe it once was (obviously), but New Trier itself doesn't sand out as the magical three syllable word it once was. Before the sprawl of Chicagoland and before history and tradition and community pride and sense of place were lost to the common perception, New Trier and Evanston were not thought of to compare the differences between them, but as a recognition how back-to-back communities had managed to create a standard that all high schools across the country were strieving to achieve.

It was Evanston vs. New Trier. It was Evanston and New Trier. And quite frankly, when quality education, deep long tradition, and a sense that two schools when spoken of together had a meaning throughout Chicagoland, the phrase "Evanston and New Trier" mattered. Greatly.

[Anthera]

And yet you haven't answered my question. How was my account of New Trier spiltting off a freshman campus "sanitized"? If you had read the thread you would have known that we were not talking about the east/west split forty years ago.

Your other comments lose credibility when you make hit and run criticisms and are unable to back up your statements or admit you are wrong.

[Anthera]

As an Evanston native (although I did not live in Illinois during my high school years), and almost lifelong resident of the middle North Shore, I do not believe that NT and Evanston were ever considered the same. NT always had the additional glamour of its surrounding communities. In the 1950's and 1960's there were national newspaer and magazine articles about NT. Including a famous Time magazine article.

My parents were among the many young couples who bought their starter homes in Evanston, with every intention of moving into the NT district when their children reached school age.

I am not saying that the education at Evanston was not great, the test scores might have been close to or better, but the national reputation and glamour belonged to NT.

[Anthera]

Correction - The cover story on NT was in Life Magazine in 1950 (also in 1998). Town & Country called NT "quite possibly the best public school in America"

[edsg25]

Anthera, I remember the battle in New Trier Twp when NTW was being built and the divisions that it caused within the community. There was little doubt on the part of many that there was a desire to stick the Jewish kids in the new school. Can I offer you doumentation? Hardly. I don't remember if I ever read press on the issue. But the issue was out there. If you don't choose to believe me, that's fine, but if you ask people who were in the community at the time, you'd find plenty that would agree that it was an issue. I didn't respond prior to this because, as noted above, I didn't tell you anything more than "I remember" which, on such an issue, is about all that any of us who remember the battle over attendance areas can say. Feel free to doubt my credibility; I'm not on a campaign here.

I'm not sure why you considered my comment hit-and-run. I haven't left the discussion and I honestly didn't know how to answer your question other than coming up with the lame part above. I don't see any "hit" on the sanitized obseration about New Trier. I only see real life. You sound as if I am an NT hater (I'm not; I've always admired the school and still do) or that I don't have any connections to it (my wife went to New Trier). I hardly think I have presented myself here as someone who is putting down New Trier, nor as someone who is trying to be offensive to either school. I'm not.

I believe it was the Saturday Evening Post that named ETHS the best HS in the nation in the late 1950s-early 1960s. New Trier definitely got the glamour vote, but Evanston got extremely high marks on being more diverse ethnically and economically. It offered more of a real life situation than NT did.

Which brings us to today. ETHS is far more representative of what the United States looks like than New Trier. Could ETHS students have an advanatge over NT kids because of the social skills they develop in such a diverse setting? I'm sure the argument could easily be made.

[Anthera]

Originally Posted by edsg25

Anthera, I remember the battle in New Trier Twp when NTW was being built and the divisions that it caused within the community. There was little doubt on the part of many that there was a desire to stick the Jewish kids in the new school. Can I offer you doumentation? Hardly. I don't remember if I ever read press on the issue. But the issue was out there. If you don't choose to believe me, that's fine, but if you ask people who were in the community at the time, you'd find plenty that would agree that it was an issue. I didn't respond prior to this because, as noted above, I didn't tell you anything more than "I remember" which, on such an issue, is about all that any of us who remember the battle over attendance areas can say. Feel free to doubt my credibility; I'm not on a campaign here.

Okay. You obviously didn't read the thread. I was answering the question about why New Trier developed the freshman campus, not why NT separated in the 1960s. My version was not "sanitized" (an offensive term, BTW), it answered the question. The anti-semitism which may or may not have existed in the 1960's was NOT a part of the recent decision. You implied that I was covering up anti-semitism, essentially calling me an anti-semite.

As far as removing the jewish kids in the 1960's I have heard that rumor, and I have also heard that it was not true. Who knows? You obviously did not live in the New Trier district at the time, as as a ETHS student you most likely did not attend any of the meetings of the NT school board. All you are repeating is rumor.

You may be correct, or you may not be. At any rate, nobody was asking about what happened 45 years ago, the question was about the recent split. Your arguement is akin to my answering a question about what started WWII, and your jumping in accusing me of leaving out the part about Archduke Franz Ferdinand being assinated. As a high school teacher you should know better.

[edsg25]

fine, Anthera, I made a mistake and introduced something you weren't talking about. I get it. I apologize for ruining the sanctity of thread by making that inappropriate u-turn away to NTW instead of to NT Nfd Frosh. Guilty as charged.

[edsg25]

How in the hell did I imply you were anti-semetic when the thought never entered my mind, nor do I believe that you said anything that was even remotely antisemetic? What dots did you connect that were completely removed from my mind.

YOU SAID NOTHING, AND I MEAN: NOTHING, THAT WAS THE LEAST BIT ANTISEMETIC. I never said you santitized anything, only that one could look at the enrollment lines as a santized issue.

[Anthera]

Originally Posted by edsg25

How in the hell did I imply you were anti-semetic when the thought never entered my mind, nor do I believe that you said anything that was even remotely antisemetic? What dots did you connect that were completely removed from my mind.

YOU SAID NOTHING, AND I MEAN: NOTHING, THAT WAS THE LEAST BIT ANTISEMETIC. I never said you santitized anything, only that one could look at the enrollment lines as a santized issue.

You said that I gave the "sanitized" version of the split, leaving out the anti-semitism.

Again, how could you expect anyone answering a question about the recent split to recite rumors about the 1960's split? Or are you impling that all the freshman at NT are jewish?