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Old 01-28-2015, 04:02 PM
 
650 posts, read 604,240 times
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nikita, .4mile walk to BW3… definitely would have been on our radar when we searched. ~ We used buffalo wild wings as our walking target when searching Elmhurst's core way back when...
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Old 01-28-2015, 05:20 PM
 
848 posts, read 642,888 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agallan View Post
Thought your budget was $700k? $300 for the current house + $400 for construction + closing costs + teardown costs...

I don't know the market for teardowns well, but I'd be surprised if you couldn't find one for the upper 200's which might get you closer to 700 all in.
I assume I wouldn't have to pay list for that house, which would offset closing and teardown costs...
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Old 01-28-2015, 05:22 PM
 
848 posts, read 642,888 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikitakolata View Post
If you wanted to be closer to downtown, there is a lot available that is only $199,000. I'm actually surprised it hasn't sold. It is north of North Avenue, but only one block west of York, so crossing wouldn't be an issue.

https://www.redfin.com/IL/Elmhurst/2.../home/18155324
That is a great price in a good Elmhurst neighborhood, though its proximity to North Avenue is concerning and I imagine the reason it is listed at the price it is. If I didn't have small kids, it would certainly be a viable option esp at that price.
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Old 01-28-2015, 05:59 PM
 
1,500 posts, read 1,610,919 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agallan View Post
...I have to say I don't totally agree with your conclusion in the above quote. And it goes back to what I said before, about ISAT/PSAE% vs. individual student performance. If by "similar outcome", you mean passing the PSAE, then I guess you're right. But within those schools that have similar PSAE% after selecting for non low-income students, there is still a real variation in the % of students that EXCEED expectations rather than just MEETING expectations. We can argue what that translates into in terms of real life achievement, but that is the data we have. So a great PSAE/ISAT% can "hide" students that are doing ok but not great.
Ok, valid point. The "exceed" percentages would likely be of more concern to affluent parents. Most would probably want to know the chances of their child outperforming. And you can actually find that data in the classic view report card site: IIRC: Home. I've compiled figures for most of the schools in question:



A couple observations:

1.) The percentages of low income students at these schools seem to be randomly distributed up and down the list. In other words, a higher percentage of low income students does not always have a negative effect on the performance of remaining non-low income students. It's not until you get to the very bottom of the list that the concentrations of low income students become more pronounced. There's likely some convexity, or a tipping point.

2.) This list significantly reshuffles the "cumulative" list, and would likely have implications for parents looking at schools -- that is, if this sort of list was ever publicized. For example, it's not such a far-fetched idea to imagine an affluent young family living in Chicago and contemplating a move out to the suburbs: their town finalists are Glen Ellyn (Glenbard West) and Park Ridge (Maine South). They pull up SchoolDigger to check out PSAE numbers and statewide rankings for both schools and are shocked to find Maine South ranked significantly higher than Glenbard West (cumulative 80% vs 67%). They become nervous about how their child might perform at Glenbard West. They promptly cross Glen Ellyn off the list and focus on Park Ridge. Were they right in doing so? This list says no. All else held equal, their child would have the same chance of outperformance at either school. Another example, this time real life, is a coworker of mine who recently moved his family (middle school age kids) to Winnetka (New Trier) from Evanston specifically because he was worried about test performance at Evanston Township. It's nonsense. Statistically speaking, his children would have had a better chance of outperformance at Evanston!

These are the kinds of decisions people are making all the time. And that's why I think publishing "headline" cumulative numbers unfairly punishes schools that are economically diverse, and rewards those that aren't. Cumulative scores can make undiverse, average schools like St. Charles North (a huge 80% cumulative, but only 19% non-low income exceeds) look much better than highly diverse, excellent schools like Oak Park River Forest (a lowly 73% cumulative, but a full 30% non-low income exceeds).

Last edited by holl1ngsworth; 01-28-2015 at 07:27 PM..
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Old 01-28-2015, 06:04 PM
 
1,500 posts, read 1,610,919 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by My Kind Of Town View Post
That is a great price in a good Elmhurst neighborhood, though its proximity to North Avenue is concerning and I imagine the reason it is listed at the price it is. If I didn't have small kids, it would certainly be a viable option esp at that price.
I agree, I would be nervous with my kids too. That and the resale. Even without kids, I don't think anyone could talk me into living that close to a major road. I know that stretch of North is narrower and slower than elsewhere, but it still gets a ton of traffic. At all hours too.

I like the Lincoln-assigned home more.

This one has been listed 131 days, so you may be able to get it for closer to $700k: 953 S. Spring Road ELMHURST, IL 60126

Last edited by holl1ngsworth; 01-28-2015 at 06:24 PM..
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Old 01-28-2015, 07:34 PM
 
848 posts, read 642,888 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holl1ngsworth View Post
I agree, I would be nervous with my kids too. That and the resale. Even without kids, I don't think anyone could talk me into living that close to a major road. I know that stretch of North is narrower and slower than elsewhere, but it still gets a ton of traffic. At all hours too.

I like the Lincoln-assigned home more.

This one has been listed 131 days, so you may be able to get it for closer to $700k: 953 S. Spring Road ELMHURST, IL 60126
Yes, I did see that one but I'm not crazy about the location. Not that Spring is North Ave busy but it's a little busier than I'd like. If it were one block over in either direction it would be very interesting (and probably gone by now).
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Old 01-28-2015, 10:52 PM
 
162 posts, read 214,040 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holl1ngsworth View Post
Ok, valid point. The "exceed" percentages would likely be of more concern to affluent parents. Most would probably want to know the chances of their child outperforming. And you can actually find that data in the classic view report card site: IIRC: Home. I've compiled figures for most of the schools in question:



A couple observations:

1.) The percentages of low income students at these schools seem to be randomly distributed up and down the list. In other words, a higher percentage of low income students does not always have a negative effect on the performance of remaining non-low income students. It's not until you get to the very bottom of the list that the concentrations of low income students become more pronounced. There's likely some convexity, or a tipping point.

2.) This list significantly reshuffles the "cumulative" list, and would likely have implications for parents looking at schools -- that is, if this sort of list was ever publicized. For example, it's not such a far-fetched idea to imagine an affluent young family living in Chicago and contemplating a move out to the suburbs: their town finalists are Glen Ellyn (Glenbard West) and Park Ridge (Maine South). They pull up SchoolDigger to check out PSAE numbers and statewide rankings for both schools and are shocked to find Maine South ranked significantly higher than Glenbard West (cumulative 80% vs 67%). They become nervous about how their child might perform at Glenbard West. They promptly cross Glen Ellyn off the list and focus on Park Ridge. Were they right in doing so? This list says no. All else held equal, their child would have the same chance of outperformance at either school. Another example, this time real life, is a coworker of mine who recently moved his family (middle school age kids) to Winnetka (New Trier) from Evanston specifically because he was worried about test performance at Evanston Township. It's nonsense. Statistically speaking, his children would have had a better chance of outperformance at Evanston!

These are the kinds of decisions people are making all the time. And that's why I think publishing "headline" cumulative numbers unfairly punishes schools that are economically diverse, and rewards those that aren't. Cumulative scores can make undiverse, average schools like St. Charles North (a huge 80% cumulative, but only 19% non-low income exceeds) look much better than highly diverse, excellent schools like Oak Park River Forest (a lowly 73% cumulative, but a full 30% non-low income exceeds).
Great list, very nice and helpful. Jeez, do you know what the definition of low income student is? And is it a state-based definition or by county? Some of those numbers were WAY higher than I would have expected... 27% hinsdale South, 30% DGS? I graduated from DGS 10 years ago (man I'm getting old...) and it sure didn't feel that way to me ( even inclusive of the kids from Bolingbrook).
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Old 01-28-2015, 11:01 PM
 
1,231 posts, read 1,327,476 times
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Default Very interesting list

Quote:
Originally Posted by holl1ngsworth View Post
Ok, valid point. The "exceed" percentages would likely be of more concern to affluent parents. Most would probably want to know the chances of their child outperforming. And you can actually find that data in the classic view report card site: IIRC: Home. I've compiled figures for most of the schools in question:



A couple observations:

1.) The percentages of low income students at these schools seem to be randomly distributed up and down the list. In other words, a higher percentage of low income students does not always have a negative effect on the performance of remaining non-low income students. It's not until you get to the very bottom of the list that the concentrations of low income students become more pronounced. There's likely some convexity, or a tipping point.

2.) This list significantly reshuffles the "cumulative" list, and would likely have implications for parents looking at schools -- that is, if this sort of list was ever publicized. For example, it's not such a far-fetched idea to imagine an affluent young family living in Chicago and contemplating a move out to the suburbs: their town finalists are Glen Ellyn (Glenbard West) and Park Ridge (Maine South). They pull up SchoolDigger to check out PSAE numbers and statewide rankings for both schools and are shocked to find Maine South ranked significantly higher than Glenbard West (cumulative 80% vs 67%). They become nervous about how their child might perform at Glenbard West. They promptly cross Glen Ellyn off the list and focus on Park Ridge. Were they right in doing so? This list says no. All else held equal, their child would have the same chance of outperformance at either school. Another example, this time real life, is a coworker of mine who recently moved his family (middle school age kids) to Winnetka (New Trier) from Evanston specifically because he was worried about test performance at Evanston Township. It's nonsense. Statistically speaking, his children would have had a better chance of outperformance at Evanston!

These are the kinds of decisions people are making all the time. And that's why I think publishing "headline" cumulative numbers unfairly punishes schools that are economically diverse, and rewards those that aren't. Cumulative scores can make undiverse, average schools like St. Charles North (a huge 80% cumulative, but only 19% non-low income exceeds) look much better than highly diverse, excellent schools like Oak Park River Forest (a lowly 73% cumulative, but a full 30% non-low income exceeds).
This list is very interesting. It's a useful chart to look at. Some of these schools rank very differently with their low income students compared to other students. It helps us understand how good a school really is and how even though overall they're ranked lower than a school, on this list their low income students perform better than the other school's low income students, like New Trier and Evanston. Evanston is ranked much lower than New Trier overall, but Evanston's low income students actually perform better, which makes Evanston HS look really good, which it actually is a good school. In order to find out how good a school really is, you need to look deeper than School Digger or US News Report rankings.
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Old 01-28-2015, 11:06 PM
 
1,500 posts, read 1,610,919 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4122 View Post
This list is very interesting. It's a useful chart to look at. Some of these schools rank very differently with their low income students compared to other students. It helps us understand how good a school really is and how even though overall they're ranked lower than a school, on this list their low income students perform better than the other school's low income students, like New Trier and Evanston. Evanston is ranked much lower than New Trier overall, but Evanston's low income students actually perform better, which makes Evanston HS look really good, which it actually is a good school. In order to find out how good a school really is, you need to look deeper than School Digger or US News Report rankings.
These are the non-low income kids we're talking about. Ie, the presumed affluent kids, or at least the "not poor" kids. Of which we all are...

I'm trying to show that the true performance of non-low income kids can be hidden when large percentages of low income students are present. Like at Evanston, where the non-low income students clearly perform at a level comparable to the "top" schools in the state. But that goes unknown to most folks who only ever see the headline numbers. For reference, Evanston's cumulative number is 70% and New Trier's is 92%. Again though, when you look at how many non-low income kids are excelling, it's clear Evanston ranks among the best. At least by this measure.

Last edited by holl1ngsworth; 01-29-2015 at 12:14 AM..
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Old 01-29-2015, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Chicago
3,263 posts, read 4,518,637 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by My Kind Of Town View Post
That is a great price in a good Elmhurst neighborhood, though its proximity to North Avenue is concerning and I imagine the reason it is listed at the price it is. If I didn't have small kids, it would certainly be a viable option esp at that price.
Yeah, it is close to North Avenue. It's not the corner, but being only the second house doesn't offer much of a barrier. I live pretty close to North Ave (about 1/3 down the block) and luckily you cannot hear the street at all from that distance. So, I guess it all depends on your tolerance for noise. As for kids, I would think that you could teach them to go in the other direction if they are playing outside. Addison itself has very little traffic.
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