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Old 03-13-2015, 12:46 PM
 
18 posts, read 31,176 times
Reputation: 47

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justabystander View Post
I tend to think that those who slam teardowns are sour grapes who do not live such affected areas can understand and witness the gradual improvement to those areas, or who missed out on the accompanying equity increases as a result of this change.
Your straw man certainly doesn't apply to me. I benefited greatly from the absurdly rapid increase in property value that the white flighters and the upwardly mobile brought to my neighborhood, but it also pushed good working-class people out. The end result is de facto segregation, both racial and economic. This is how Yuppieville purposefully prevents people like the original poster from having access to good schools.
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Old 03-13-2015, 01:30 PM
 
835 posts, read 637,599 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerMarrino View Post
Your straw man certainly doesn't apply to me. I benefited greatly from the absurdly rapid increase in property value that the white flighters and the upwardly mobile brought to my neighborhood, but it also pushed good working-class people out. The end result is de facto segregation, both racial and economic. This is how Yuppieville purposefully prevents people like the original poster from having access to good schools.
And this is a new revelation? This has been happening since the history of time. In fact, I would argue that there is less segregation now than there was in prior generations. Chicago's breakup of Cabrini Green and similar section 8 housing areas has resulted in a greater assimilation of less fortunate folks pushed to the surrounding suburbs rather than concentrated within specific areas in Chicago.

Why again does the replacement of older/smaller homes with new/custom/larger/better quality homes lead to overall degradation of the neighborhood? I think a few of us here were looking for an explanation...
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Old 03-13-2015, 05:27 PM
 
18 posts, read 31,176 times
Reputation: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by My Kind Of Town View Post
And this is a new revelation? This has been happening since the history of time. In fact, I would argue that there is less segregation now than there was in prior generations. Chicago's breakup of Cabrini Green and similar section 8 housing areas has resulted in a greater assimilation of less fortunate folks pushed to the surrounding suburbs rather than concentrated within specific areas in Chicago.
Section 8 only covers a percentage of the rent, which means that those who are eligible for it are generally going to rent in less desirable suburbs where rent is cheaper and the pickings are more plentiful. It has had a FAR greater impact on working-class suburbs that were already in decline.

This leads right back to the original point about working-class families not being able to buy a home in a neighborhood with a good school system. Where are they supposed to put down roots now that their neighborhoods have either gone to seed or been taken over by the rich? They took the brunt of the section 8 program and they aren't even eligible for it. Once again, the rich dodged a bullet at the expense of the working class.

Quote:
Why again does the replacement of older/smaller homes with new/custom/larger/better quality homes lead to overall degradation of the neighborhood? I think a few of us here were looking for an explanation...
I'm not sure how much more can be said on the subject of McMansion architecture other than 'I don't like how they look' or 'I like how they look'. I've come down firmly on the side of not liking oversized opulence on a well-manicured postage stamp of a lot and everything it stands for. I'm surprised that more of them aren't phallic shaped, to be honest. Perhaps that will be the next trend.
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Old 03-13-2015, 07:31 PM
 
173 posts, read 182,132 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerMarrino View Post
Section 8 only covers a percentage of the rent, which means that those who are eligible for it are generally going to rent in less desirable suburbs where rent is cheaper and the pickings are more plentiful. It has had a FAR greater impact on working-class suburbs that were already in decline.

This leads right back to the original point about working-class families not being able to buy a home in a neighborhood with a good school system. Where are they supposed to put down roots now that their neighborhoods have either gone to seed or been taken over by the rich? They took the brunt of the section 8 program and they aren't even eligible for it. Once again, the rich dodged a bullet at the expense of the working class.

I'm not sure how much more can be said on the subject of McMansion architecture other than 'I don't like how they look' or 'I like how they look'. I've come down firmly on the side of not liking oversized opulence on a well-manicured postage stamp of a lot and everything it stands for. I'm surprised that more of them aren't phallic shaped, to be honest. Perhaps that will be the next trend.
Haha ok. So you prefer the "look" of a smaller, outdated home, as many of the teardowns are, with slightly larger green space over a new custom home with slightly smaller green space. That's an interesting side to choose. I guess that's why you moved out to the country. To each their own I suppose.
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Old 03-13-2015, 09:29 PM
 
835 posts, read 637,599 times
Reputation: 541
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerMarrino View Post
Section 8 only covers a percentage of the rent, which means that those who are eligible for it are generally going to rent in less desirable suburbs where rent is cheaper and the pickings are more plentiful. It has had a FAR greater impact on working-class suburbs that were already in decline.

This leads right back to the original point about working-class families not being able to buy a home in a neighborhood with a good school system. Where are they supposed to put down roots now that their neighborhoods have either gone to seed or been taken over by the rich? They took the brunt of the section 8 program and they aren't even eligible for it. Once again, the rich dodged a bullet at the expense of the working class.

I'm not sure how much more can be said on the subject of McMansion architecture other than 'I don't like how they look' or 'I like how they look'. I've come down firmly on the side of not liking oversized opulence on a well-manicured postage stamp of a lot and everything it stands for. I'm surprised that more of them aren't phallic shaped, to be honest. Perhaps that will be the next trend.
That's where I disagree. I believe middle class families CAN afford a home in a neighborhood with a good school system. Suburbs like Downers Grove, Darien, Palos, LaGrange Highlands, parts of Naperville, and Lemont are all places that quickly come to mind that are generally affordable to middle class families within good school districts. Middle class families can also afford a home within great school districts if they are willing to make sacrifices on the home itself (size, updates, etc).

When we bought our home in Hinsdale we did so by primarily sacrificing living space and the age of the home itself including features that required updating after purchase. I would have considered ourselves upper middle class at the time we bought as we had a household income of ~$120k. I know that families can afford a decent home in the before mentioned areas with a household income in closer to the $100k range (with a reasonable down payment and no significant prior debt accumulation - i.e. $1k/month in car payments, $50k in credit card debt, etc).
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Old 03-14-2015, 12:43 PM
 
3,783 posts, read 5,526,561 times
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I agree when you get out in the hinter lands sometimes they put up these huge ugly houses that look to be poorly constructed but in most of the areas of dupage county in places like Wheaton, Glen Ellyn and Hinsdale the new homes being built are mostly very well constructed and fit well on the lot as well as being very aesthetically pleasing.
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Old 03-14-2015, 01:35 PM
 
173 posts, read 182,132 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by moderngnome View Post
I don't have a problem with McMansions - Except that everything that isn't a brand new home here (Elmhurst) is a (potential) tear down. There seems to be no price limit (especially on bigger lots). So what we essentially have are one set of homes that are brand new and very large and another set of homes that are older and small (and over improved, LOL, because we are all stuck in place - so many 1200-1400 square feet homes with $$$ kitchens and bathrooms).

There is no middle here. We've lived here for 9 years, and it would be really nice to be able to move up into a larger home for my pre-teen children, without leaving their schools/activities/friends.
What do you consider "middle"? I would say there is much more of a "middle" in a suburb like Elmhurst than there is in places like Hinsdale, Western Springs, or Clarendon Hills. Here are a few examples one of which is pending:

https://www.redfin.com/IL/Elmhurst/5.../home/18099612

https://www.redfin.com/IL/Elmhurst/3.../home/18099745

https://www.redfin.com/IL/Elmhurst/5.../home/18101582

I don't see any of those homes being torn down...
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Old 03-14-2015, 05:28 PM
 
Location: Chicagoland
111 posts, read 163,635 times
Reputation: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by destination-unknown View Post
What do you consider "middle"? I would say there is much more of a "middle" in a suburb like Elmhurst than there is in places like Hinsdale, Western Springs, or Clarendon Hills. Here are a few examples one of which is pending:

https://www.redfin.com/IL/Elmhurst/5.../home/18099612

https://www.redfin.com/IL/Elmhurst/3.../home/18099745

https://www.redfin.com/IL/Elmhurst/5.../home/18101582

I don't see any of those homes being torn down...
I guess I think of $500,000 as being more than "middle". So maybe that would have been a better question - what does everyone consider the middle?

The first one is very nice! I like the 4 bedrooms, the basement, and it's on a nice big lot.

The second one - Groan - 3 bedrooms, 1.5 baths - For more than $500,000? No thanks.

The third one needs a lot of cosmetic updates, and it only has a one car garage (detached) as well.

I have seen houses more expensive than these torn down. Especially that first one would be at risk, because it's a nice sized lot.
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Old 03-14-2015, 05:45 PM
 
173 posts, read 182,132 times
Reputation: 111
I highly doubt any of those get torn down. There are a number of Elmhurst homes in the $450k -$600k range that are smack dab in the middle of the 1000-1200sf teardown type home you referenced and the brand new $1M custom home. Wouldn't these homes qualify as the "middle"? Most true teardowns in Elmhurst are sub $300k unless it's in a superb location and/or sits on an oversized lot. I think homes in the low $500s would be deemed affordable for mid to upper middle class folks. I hate to say it but if you are lower middle class in income and expect a nice home in a great school district it's probably not going to happen. However, there are many Chicagoland suburbs with good schools in which homes can be had in the low $300s.

I'm not sure what your individual situation is but if you have owned a home for 9 years you should have a fair amount of equity built up by this point. Using that as a down payment and if you have a household income in the low $100s a home in the $500k range is certainly within reach.
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Old 03-14-2015, 08:42 PM
 
1,231 posts, read 1,322,982 times
Reputation: 369
Quote:
Originally Posted by My Kind Of Town View Post
That's where I disagree. I believe middle class families CAN afford a home in a neighborhood with a good school system. Suburbs like Downers Grove, Darien, Palos, LaGrange Highlands, parts of Naperville, and Lemont are all places that quickly come to mind that are generally affordable to middle class families within good school districts. Middle class families can also afford a home within great school districts if they are willing to make sacrifices on the home itself (size, updates, etc).

When we bought our home in Hinsdale we did so by primarily sacrificing living space and the age of the home itself including features that required updating after purchase. I would have considered ourselves upper middle class at the time we bought as we had a household income of ~$120k. I know that families can afford a decent home in the before mentioned areas with a household income in closer to the $100k range (with a reasonable down payment and no significant prior debt accumulation - i.e. $1k/month in car payments, $50k in credit card debt, etc).
I totally agree. Except some parts of DG can be expensive. I also think that many people underrate the more affordable suburbs that still have good schools but aren't in the same tier as Hinsdale schools, Wheaton schools, Naperville schools, Wheaton schools, Elmhurst schools, etc. However, some families who have to sacrifice house space in the more expensive suburbs can be hard for families because the house they get might not be good for their family size and taxes are more likely to be higher in suburbs like these, so they maybe actually paying more than in an a more afforbale suburb. Lemont is actually suprisingly affordable and their schools are right up there.
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