Is Berwyn truly integrated, or are we experiencing white flight? (Chicago: real estate, crime)

[lifelongchicagoland]

Originally Posted by treemoni

I don't play any "race card". I discuss reality.

You should move.

That's what I'm afraid of, as I HATE moving in general. I like the location of my house, and for 250k the house is absolutely beautiful. It's walking distance to the Blue Line, and Oak Brook Center is 20 minutes down the Eisenhower. It would be a shame to throw that all away for a fear that may or may not pan out.

I'll reflect on what you've said. Maybe my feelings are coming from a racist perspective without me realizing it. Do you by chance live here in the area? If so, what insight can you give me to the future of Berwyn? Am I simply panicking, or is Berwyn on a declining path?

[treemoni]

I don't think I can answer this question for you. I am familiar with the area and think it's a nice community. I think it's a shame many people overlook it because there are mostly Latino families living there. What a shame. As you mentioned, it is very accessible to many places. But people are silly and insular.

[ToriaT]

I bought a two flat in Berwyn last year and I am generally very pleased with the community. I am white and my son lives in one of the flats. It is a diverse community and that is not going to change. I noticed on my block there are whites, Hispanics and a few black families. It seems like the policing in Berwyn is good and they keep a strong look at gangs and crime. Actually the crime rate is low. The community is clean. There are a certain amount of families moving into the area, including white families to take advantage of the great housing stock. Our area is about to be named a national historic district. There are many community organizations looking to make Berwyn better. White flight of the old Czech population has already happened. I am pulling for Berwyn. There are a lot of people flipping houses there so time will tell who will buy them. North Berwyn seems to have more problems and any time you get into larger apartment situations you could have more problems. I would not freak out. Keep in mind most people that are home owners have an incentive to see the community thrive. Even if Berwyn changes more to minorities its more likely to be like Cicero than Austin.

[ToriaT]

Keep in mind most of the houses that are flipped and renovated are being sold for 250 to 350. You have to have a good stable income and job to afford a house like that even in Berwyn. The days of picking up a vintage bungalow for 50 K are over.

[OccidentExpress]

Oak Park's integration program was more of a white flight prevention program than anything else. By seeding a limited number of upper-middle-class blacks all over town, they prevented the kind of block-by-block takeover that thoroughly decimated Maywood and Austin. They also had access to more upscale housing stock, which inherently priced most minorities out. Berwyn never had the housing stock to get much mileage out of a program like that, even if the gangsters who ran the place had the inclination to implement it.

What's happening in Berwyn is more white attrition than white flight. Whites are moving out, but they're mostly dying off. A decent percentage of whites who still live in Berwyn are senior citizens who have lived there since the 'old days'. The whites who had the means and the inclination to flee from Cicero's spillover already did so.

You shouldn't shrink whenever some idiot throws the word 'racism' your way. You've voiced some legitimate concerns. If those concerns make some people feel uncomfortable, that's on them. Your family's well being should always take priority over a rude stranger's feelings.

[lifelongchicagoland]

Originally Posted by ToriaT

I bought a two flat in Berwyn last year and I am generally very pleased with the community. I am white and my son lives in one of the flats. It is a diverse community and that is not going to change. I noticed on my block there are whites, Hispanics and a few black families. It seems like the policing in Berwyn is good and they keep a strong look at gangs and crime. Actually the crime rate is low. The community is clean. There are a certain amount of families moving into the area, including white families to take advantage of the great housing stock. Our area is about to be named a national historic district. There are many community organizations looking to make Berwyn better. White flight of the old Czech population has already happened. I am pulling for Berwyn. There are a lot of people flipping houses there so time will tell who will buy them. North Berwyn seems to have more problems and any time you get into larger apartment situations you could have more problems. I would not freak out. Keep in mind most people that are home owners have an incentive to see the community thrive. Even if Berwyn changes more to minorities its more likely to be like Cicero than Austin.

As long as Berwyn remains an economically viable, racially mixed community, I'm comfortable staying. I am one of those newcomers that live a "rehabbed" home, and don't want my investment to go down the tubes. That, and safety, are my primary concerns.

Out of curiosity, what made you chose Berwyn as an investment? I got so much flack from coworkers and friends telling me not to move here, and minus the recent kids in the street activity and Turano fire (that was something else), it's been peaceful so far.

Thanks for your considerate feedback. It seems like you know the area fairly well.

[ToriaT]

The housing stock is unbelievable...vintage bungalows and two and three flats. Stained glass, wood floors, high ceilings and very solid brick. Our living room there is 18x20 feet...quite large. The prices were reasonable and a place in Chicago would cost much much more and probably be trashed. The crime rate is fairly low. It has seemed peaceful when I have spent time there but like any urbanized place you have to be attentive and watch. Don't take safety for granted. My son lived in Logan Square and the prices have shot up there and the community where he was, was still mostly Hispanic. There was a fair amount of crime still.

There is an active arts community in Berwyn and there are also small groups of preservationists there trying to make it better and keep what they have. Its also become a top area for the gay community to re locate too. So many people are being priced out of neighborhoods in Chicago. Five generations of my family have lived in Berwyn (not me), I come from the old Czech stock though.

Maybe you should connect with some of the other folks that are trying to preserve things if you have not plugged into the community. There is a facebook page you can go to where people talk about rehabbing and preserving their old bungalows. I've gone to a meeting there to hear about the historic district too.

Also if you notice, businesses are not fleeing Berwyn. Sure there are some empty storefronts but there are new things planned and going in. The Big Hurt Brewpub, The Longhorn steakhouse has gone in, there is a Costco (okay not really Berwyn but still), Meier, Tony's, Five Guys, Chipotle, etc. Businesses are in there and they seem to be thriving. Those kind of places do not go into areas that are running down.

Still, the schools do not have a great reputation. But many say they are better than the CPS schools, and there are a number of private schools in or near the community. If the schools improved the housing prices would increase and more people would want to live there.

I doubt if you will see massive white flight, as someone above said it is more like attrition and then who moves in is kind of a toss up. At worst you may feel uncomfortable and decide to sell and you will not lose out on your house....you may sell it to someone Hispanic but who cares. I track the real estate pretty closely there and things are selling. Many people flipping homes, and reselling them after remodeling. You see a lot of construction dumpsters out. All good signs that economic activity is occurring.

[Runuova]

Originally Posted by lifelongchicagoland

The town is still close to 1/3 white, and that's fine with me that it's mixed. Income/racial diversity is ok too, as long as it's not ALL poor, ALL minority. However, I don't want to be stuck in a town that is gone completely ghetto. Look at some of the nearby towns that have experienced dramatic white flight like Maywood or Bellwood and tell me how the loss of a white population has helped these towns? Look how bad there schools are, and the lack of desirability these towns provide.

Let's stop playing the race card, and look at this from a realistic perspective.

Areas don't become "bad" because whites move out and a minority majority move in. They go that way because the once prestigious area becomes victim to high home turnover and a housing fire sell.

[ToriaT]

also Berwyn suffered quite a bit during the economic downturn and the foreclosure crisis. Many lost their homes due to lax lending policies. Those are no longer in effect and its harder to get a mortgage so those that do buy should be in solid shape.

[lifelongchicagoland]

Originally Posted by OccidentExpress

Oak Park's integration program was more of a white flight prevention program than anything else. By seeding a limited number of upper-middle-class blacks all over town, they prevented the kind of block-by-block takeover that thoroughly decimated Maywood and Austin. They also had access to more upscale housing stock, which inherently priced most minorities out. Berwyn never had the housing stock to get much mileage out of a program like that, even if the gangsters who ran the place had the inclination to implement it.

What's happening in Berwyn is more white attrition than white flight. Whites are moving out, but they're mostly dying off. A decent percentage of whites who still live in Berwyn are senior citizens who have lived there since the 'old days'. The whites who had the means and the inclination to flee from Cicero's spillover already did so.

You shouldn't shrink whenever some idiot throws the word 'racism' your way. You've voiced some legitimate concerns. If those concerns make some people feel uncomfortable, that's on them. Your family's well being should always take priority over a rude stranger's feelings.

I thought about what you said, and I appreciate that you saw my concerns as valid. You seemed to get the concern of a stable balanced area vs a changing for the worse one. Unfortunately, Chicagoland is a race focused region, and whether we like it or not, when an area becomes majority African American schools go downhill and business leave. It's a fact of life here, and I'm not willing to lose hard earned money and put my child through a bad school for the sake of "diversity". With that being said, Toria T's comments have really helped me put Berwyn in perspective again. I moved here for a beautiful home that was AFFORDABLE and CENTRALLY LOCATED. If I see signs of Berwyn losing ground, I'll be moving west to Lisle or Naperville, but hope that we can hold Berwyn together as a diverse, welcoming community where ALL races and ethnicities want to live, like Oak Park.