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Old 04-20-2015, 07:57 AM
 
11,972 posts, read 26,857,959 times
Reputation: 4547

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If you look at the low income student achievement gap, the data on the NIU School Report Card site can actually be compared for "Non-Low-Income" students:

Pierce Downer

Reading 87, Math 86, Science Not Reported


Western Ave

Reading 80, Math 82, Science 80


Pierce Downer still comes out ahead, but not as dramatically. I think Western Avenue could be considered a comparable school when judging only by test scores. And knowing the area around Pierce Downer quite well, I'm guessing the "non-low-income" students are probably mostly HIGH income students. It is probably the most affluent corner of Downers Grove.

Last edited by Lookout Kid; 04-20-2015 at 08:56 AM..
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Old 04-20-2015, 08:04 AM
 
11,972 posts, read 26,857,959 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holl1ngsworth View Post
Ok....

Longfellow Elementary (Wheaton)
91% ISAT
22% Low Income

Using your specially weighted system, subtract the low income student body, 22%, from 100 which gives 78%. Then divide the total students meeting or exceeding, 91%, by the percentage of non-low income students, 78%. That gives Longfellow a weighted score of 117%! And many schools in Wheaton actually score higher than 100% using your system.
Holl1ngsworth knows this, but you can actually can look at the "non-low-income" scores. Just click the "View Details" button on the left, and look at the drop-down menu to select a different "student group".

In this case, Wheaton's Longfellow Elementary compares as follows:

Reading 94, Math 96, Science 99

Hard to say it's not one of the better-scoring schools in the area for non-low-income students!
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Old 04-20-2015, 08:52 AM
 
56 posts, read 124,086 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett View Post
LOOK, the very links posted above CLEARLY show that Pierce Downer has a very impressive 99% of students meeting or exceeding standards for Science, 86% for Reading and 85% for Math. In contrast Western Ave school shows just 80% Science, 76% Reading, 78% Math. Thems the facts. If we translate to common letter grades Pierce Downer nets an A+ in Science with solid Bs in Reading and Math while Western Ave eeks out a low B for Science with mid Cs in Science and Math. In nobody's book should that be "quite favorable" a comparison.

The fact is that though the costs to deliver similar levels of instruction are pretty similar in the region the FACT is that because Downers Grove has far more valuable property backing each student the BURDEN on home owners is MARKEDLY less. The reasons for this are largely outside the control of the schools -- far more high value office buildings in Downers Grove, far more very pricey homes in the core near the train / historic district / woodsy forest preserves, quite a few real mansions in Oak Brook that are served by D58 schools too. In fact, I have personally advocated for changes in the way some funds are allocated to help level funds in the districts that are not as affluent...

Fact is the OP asked about the lack of love the HF seems to get. All I have tried to do is put some numbers around the situation. People are tapped out! Sure, if the OP has kids it is smart to connect with like minded neighbors on FB or even across the backyard fence to figure out how best to get the most value from the schools BUT the real issues of declining trends in local employment for the south suburbs and crushingly high property taxes can ONLY be addressed if the legislatures in Springfield get serious about picking up their obligation to be the PRIMARY source of funding for Illinois public schools!
Chet, if my link would have worked, it would have displayed the performance by ethnicity. This "CLEARLY" shows that white students at Western perform on par with Pierce Downer. Western at 94% in Science, 86% in Math and 83% in Reading vs. Pierce Downer's 98% in Science, 85% in Math and 86% in Reading. Translated to common letter grades, that's an A, and two B's at both schools. It's not easy to perform any other subgroup comparisons between the schools, Pierce Downer is largely White and non-low income.

Taxes are high, cost of housing is lower in HF. Total home ownership costs are lower (and in some cases, significantly lower) in HF than houses in D58. Both towns have walkable cores, good housing stock and good public transportation. Appreciation will be less in HF. None of this is in contention.
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Old 04-20-2015, 09:44 AM
 
9 posts, read 11,819 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4122 View Post
Homewood/ Flossmoor is a nice area; I think you should move there. The whole south suburban area is in decline and is definitley not the west suburbs, but if I had had to pick an area to move to the south suburbs, Homewood/Flossmoor would be one of the ares I would look at. I do think that it's ridicoulus that the taxes are so high yet the schools don't rank as high as a lot of west suburban towns. You'd think that paying if you were paying so much in taxes, you would get top notch schools. Still, compared to other suburbs, Homewood/ Flossmoor schools are good.
Wow, huge broad statement. Ahh, yea Frankfort, New Lenox, Mokena are all in death rolls.
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Old 04-23-2015, 07:24 PM
 
Location: South Chicagoland
4,111 posts, read 7,355,305 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uscuba2_2013 View Post
Wow, huge broad statement. Ahh, yea Frankfort, New Lenox, Mokena are all in death rolls.
Those are southwest suburbs. Do you still feel this is a huge broad statement if we're actually only talking about the SOUTH suburbs? You know, the burbs east of I-57.
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Old 05-04-2015, 06:27 PM
 
Location: Homewood, IL
264 posts, read 299,933 times
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Sorry to interrupt you guys, but Western Ave is not even our assigned school!
We are near 183rd and Halsted, so pretty far from Western Ave.
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Old 05-04-2015, 08:11 PM
 
1,231 posts, read 1,324,688 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leroy217 View Post
Sorry to interrupt you guys, but Western Ave is not even our assigned school!
We are near 183rd and Halsted, so pretty far from Western Ave.
That's in Homewood, right? Different school district, then Western Avenue. Still, Homewood schools are good. They have a different consolidation system. Instead of k-6 schools and a 7-8 school like Flossmoor schools, there's a k-2 school, 3-4, 5-6, and 7-8. Personally, this isn't my favorite consolidation system, but the district is still pretty good. Actually, Homewood's schools perform better than Flossmoor's.
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Old 05-04-2015, 10:57 PM
 
Location: Homewood, IL
264 posts, read 299,933 times
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Willow School is K-2, Winston Churchill is 3-4, and Millenium is 5-6.
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Old 05-04-2015, 11:01 PM
 
Location: Homewood, IL
264 posts, read 299,933 times
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People start arguing about school districts I don't even care about just to "measure up". I am not trying to keep up with anyone, just want a good and safe education for my children. I am not moving to the western suburbs, so I care not to hear about how great their schools are.

Thanks everyone though!

Hopefully the schools remain stable and safe; multiracial and diverse are major factors also.
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Old 05-05-2015, 01:58 PM
 
28,384 posts, read 67,954,698 times
Reputation: 18190
Default There are many way that "keeping up" matters...

Quote:
Originally Posted by leroy217 View Post
People start arguing about school districts I don't even care about just to "measure up". I am not trying to keep up with anyone, just want a good and safe education for my children. I am not moving to the western suburbs, so I care not to hear about how great their schools are.

Thanks everyone though!

Hopefully the schools remain stable and safe; multiracial and diverse are major factors also.
The budgetary decisions of the State of Illinois are very likely to continue to shift a greater burden on local units of government. Towns that already have very high property taxes for relatively modest homes are likely to be forced to make unpopular decisions about cutting back on their already limited offerings.

Sadly the results of these problems will almost certainly not result in increased stability but rather even more turmoil. Some people will try to organize to change these trends but many more will choose to relocate to areas that have more property wealth per student OR just move to a whole different state that has already dealt with these issues.

Make no mistake, the inaction that has been simmering for decades, going all the way back to the corrupt policies of George Ryan and perpetuated through the corrupt Blagojevich administration and the inept Quinn term of office are now at the boiling point. The path that Rauner is laying out will result in a greater burden on property taxes if folks want to maintain the level of financial support that schools have. The areas that already have more needy students may get some modicum of shifted funds if the state aid formula is modified but the overall negative effects of returning less state income tax to municipal governments would still see property tax payers shouldering more and getting no benefit from these additional tax payments. The overall pressure from underfunded government pensions, at all levels, will necessarily fall hardest on communities with the least resources to address these funding shortfalls.

You can "hope" all you want but there is no escaping financial reality and they only near term "change" possible is for things to get worse.

I started a new thread that lays out the depressing facts that show just how much kids from low income households stand to benefit from being raised in a more affluent area. Even I was more than a little shocked at how wide this gulf can be even in adjacent counties like DuPage and Cook. This sort of data totally trumps any supposed benefits from so called diversity...
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