04-06-2016, 09:43 AM
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I used to rent near I88 and State 59. It has apartment below 80k for sale and rent can be 900/mo. But I do see lots of empty apartment there so I guess its not a popular area. I'm now looking for some investment rental properties around the west suburb, which ideally close to Naperville where I live so I can manage it myself. And my budget is 100k. Appreciate if you can give some input, like the popular area I should be looking at. I hope the area can be popular with renters and not in ghetto area. Hope this is not too much to ask
Thanks
04-06-2016, 10:17 AM
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I have some experience as a landlord, though I generally rented out single family homes. That said, I do know some folks that have done pretty well with mid-sized / smaller multi-family properties, it is vital to find the kind of units that will be attractive to tenants with solid ability to afford what you are offering.
If you focus on safer locations, with good access to transportation, you are probably better off than straying into the more challenging areas. Depending on what you expect to get from your investment there are probably some decent options in all kinds of towns that are close to Naperville but the vacancies you've noticed are the sorts of things that LARGER property management firms driven by REIT investors can tolerate but will KILL a little guy. For this reason it may be smart to try to find a property that has more of niche appeal -- something in the heart of West Chicago might seem undesirable to folks that can't see past the negatives, but it also have good access to the UP-W line and pretty solid demand from folks working at Fermi on a temporary basis (and despite much the cutting edge high energy physics shifting to other labs there are still MANY interesting activities at Fermi that attract short term renters...). A similar arguement could be made for finding a decent spot near downtown Wheaton, where its fairly nice downtown is increasingly attractive to empty nesters, the various commuters that like access to UP-W line or a quieter alternative to Naperville as well the need for temporary accomodations for part time faculty and grad students at Wheaton College. Nearly identical arguement for units near the core of Elmhurst, River Forest and Oak Park. Very similar case can be made for Westmont too.
Of course in any of these situations you really must be careful to understand how the rental markets work for folks that may want a shorter term lease as well as what sorts of people are most likely to be renters in an environment where low interest rates make ownership relatively easy. Take a page from the books of the big property management firms that increasingly are offering renters the option of furnished units that make it very easy to move in, ensure the place has multiple options for high speed internet, good parking, etc...
04-06-2016, 10:49 AM
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Its very hard to find an apartment building, ie a two or three flat in that price range, unless you are talking totally ghetto. At the height of the housing crash you might be able to find some. If by "apartment" you mean condo, you can certainly find something around that price, even so most modest condos near Naperville will go for at least 100 k if not more unless they are a total dump and have to be rehabbed. Then you have the association fees which eat into your profits. If you have a mortgage, I don't see how you could really make any money and most of the places you are talking about in that area have no real solid investment value in the Fox Valley where they build hundreds of lower budget units in places.
I looked yesterday at Redfin in response to someone else asking a similar question and most two flats were going for at least mid 300 if not 400 or more. Even in Berwyn and Cicero the prices are now mostly higher than 200 k. Occasionally you will find something but it probably is not immediately rentable but will need work.
04-06-2016, 11:38 AM
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Sorry, I mean one unit, not a whole building. And the one I used to rent is on 5s070 pebblewood ln, naperville for some reason, it doesn't attract renters even thought its by I88 and 59. And the owner I rented from seem like to want to sell than rent. So it probably an indication that's not an ideal place to buy and rent. I just used redfin, and there seems like lots of options for units under 100k so I guess my question is what part of west burb will be more attractive renters, or what type of features will attract renters. Escpecially long term renters with stable incomes.
04-06-2016, 11:40 AM
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This will be my first rental property so I want to hear lots of opinion so that I wont end up with a empty condo with mortgage and hoa due...
04-06-2016, 07:54 PM
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Places that are convenient to trains and highways for one. Anything near 1 88, I mean a lot of this is common sense. You are asking some square one questions so maybe you need do some more looking through the boards here, there have been many past discussions on various burbs and their attributes. I would also suggest you look at some rental sites like hot pads, etc to see what places look like on the outside and inside and see if what you have in mind compares favorably to that. If a person can get a nice place for rent on hot pads why would they rent something that may not compare favorably?
04-07-2016, 11:24 AM
Location: Chicago, Tri-Taylor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
chet everett
I have some experience as a landlord, though I generally rented out single family homes. That said, I do know some folks that have done pretty well with mid-sized / smaller multi-family properties, it is vital to find the kind of units that will be attractive to tenants with solid ability to afford what you are offering.
If you focus on safer locations, with good access to transportation, you are probably better off than straying into the more challenging areas. Depending on what you expect to get from your investment there are probably some decent options in all kinds of towns that are close to Naperville but the vacancies you've noticed are the sorts of things that LARGER property management firms driven by REIT investors can tolerate but will KILL a little guy. For this reason it may be smart to try to find a property that has more of niche appeal -- something in the heart of West Chicago might seem undesirable to folks that can't see past the negatives, but it also have good access to the UP-W line and pretty solid demand from folks working at Fermi on a temporary basis (and despite much the cutting edge high energy physics shifting to other labs there are still MANY interesting activities at Fermi that attract short term renters...). A similar arguement could be made for finding a decent spot near downtown Wheaton, where its fairly nice downtown is increasingly attractive to empty nesters, the various commuters that like access to UP-W line or a quieter alternative to Naperville as well the need for temporary accomodations for part time faculty and grad students at Wheaton College. Nearly identical arguement for units near the core of Elmhurst, River Forest and Oak Park. Very similar case can be made for Westmont too.
Of course in any of these situations you really must be careful to understand how the rental markets work for folks that may want a shorter term lease as well as what sorts of people are most likely to be renters in an environment where low interest rates make ownership relatively easy. Take a page from the books of the big property management firms that increasingly are offering renters the option of furnished units that make it very easy to move in, ensure the place has multiple options for high speed internet, good parking, etc...
Good points Chet. A lot of small investors get pie eyed and only look at the "big money" areas. You're already disadvantaged when you do that because there are few affordable rental buildings because properties tend to be better maintained in desirable areas, and a lot of the "white flight" suburbs discovered the joys of restrictive zoning. You think the people who founded places like Wheaton and Naperville wanted to have a lot of apartments around after watching what happened in their old City neighborhoods? LOL! Right.
And not only that, these areas draw the big fish. You do not want to be in the pool with the big fish. When an affordable building does come up, the big fish will easily beat the small guy down by paying more than the ask, waving the full selling price in cash in the seller's face, agreeing to forego the pre-purchase inspection contingency and close next Tuesday, or all of the above. The little dude's modest little contract for 90% of the asking price and pre-purchase structure and termite inspection contingency will find its way to the nearest trash bin in short order.
The big fish also wants to hit the granny. So if it's a down 'n out building in a hot area, he will gladly pay more than a building is currently worth, take it as-is, sink a lot of money into it, and then cover the negative cash flow for a few years. Or alternatively, if the area is nice enough, he'll just turn it into an SFH, or rip it down and build an SFH.
The prudent small investor needs one where there's a high demand for rentals, "turn key" rental buildings which have been maintained, and purchase prices low enough to put him in the black right away. Your Wheaton idea sounds good on paper but good luck in real life. West Chicago could be like that though, and maybe Aurora. Closer in, places like Berwyn and Cicero are almost completely off the rental investor radar and have a lot of 2 and 3 unit rental buildings. None of these places are sexy, but to get a good deal (defining good deal as positive cash flow and a good renter pool) you're probably going to have to look in places that the big money is ignoring.
And if you're going to furnish units as you suggest, I'd also look at Airbnb. I'm experimenting with this a little now and finding it pretty easy to get people in, at least into my Tri-Taylor building. Not sure if you'd have similar success in a place like WeGo or Aurora, but if it was near a commuter train line, perhaps.
04-07-2016, 08:06 PM
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You can't afford to buy some of the buildings in the better suburbs and make the numbers work. Prices are just way too high. And to get an apartment building that has a larger number of units, you have to pay a lot of money. I've seen buildings even in Berwyn for 800 k.
There are some savvy small time investors in places like Berwyn. My next door neighbor that I only met once told me he owns quite a few buildings, maybe he said six or so in Berwyn and he rents them out. He was looking to buy my building when it was for sale but he said it was too expensive for him. I don't know about Cicero, there are probably people doing the same thing there.
The OP said he was talking about a condo at a very low price point. Very hard to find a good condo for that, it could be possible but it might need a lot of work. If your mortgage is 800 and your HOA fee is 400 (not uncommon in these older places) how do you make any thing to keep up the maintenance and pay the taxes on the unit? The numbers just don't work well.
04-08-2016, 09:50 AM
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I found some potential condos in downers grove near the metra. Both are 20 mins walk from metra.
A: 2bed, monthly payment 150$ lower, including HOA, mortgage etc. No ammenities
B: 1bed, community include pool, tennis court, near trail.
I'm wondering if anyone have opinion in the renting market in that area and helpful suggestion on which one I should look into more.
Thanks,
04-08-2016, 10:20 AM
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One the "driving forces" shaping the rental market in Downers Grove is the explosive growth at Midwestern University. If the places you are considering have things like good access to their campuses (split between the main site on 31st east of Highland and the clinical site west of Finley Rd) and designated / covered parking that might be more important to med / pharm type students who generally will not need to head into the Loop...
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Urban houses (%)
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Geographical mobility - Same house 1 year ago (%)
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Housing units in structures - 1, detached (%)
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Housing units in structures - 50 or more (%)
Housing units in structures - Mobile home (%)
Housing units in structures - Boat, RV, van, etc. (%)
House/condo owner moved in on average (years ago)
Renter moved in on average (years ago)
Year householder moved into unit - Moved in 1999 to March 2000 (%)
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Working at home (%)
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Most Common Occupations - Law enforcement workers including supervisors (%)
Most Common Occupations - Food preparation and serving related occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Building and grounds cleaning and maintenance occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Personal care and service occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Sales and office occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Sales and related occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Office and administrative support occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Natural resources, construction, and maintenance occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Farming, fishing, and forestry occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Construction and extraction occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Installation, maintenance, and repair occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production, transportation, and material moving occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Transportation occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Material moving occupations (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - Correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Federal prisons and detention centers (%)
People in Group quarters - Halfway houses (%)
People in Group quarters - Local jails and other confinement facilities (including police lockups) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military disciplinary barracks (%)
People in Group quarters - State prisons (%)
People in Group quarters - Other types of correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Nursing homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards, hospices, and schools for the handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)