Ranking Chicago's North Shore Suburbs by Prominence/Name Recognition (Schaumburg: middle schools, trains)

[lakecountylifer]

Kennilworth is definitely the #1 north shore community based on prestige. And WJJ is right. When I was a child my dad was a postman and we lived in a small slab home in highland park. 2 bedroom little bungalow. In the late 60's and early 70's Highland Park was still a nice north shore town but was the red headed step child to lake forest and winnetka. Not disputing there were many mansions on Sheridan in HP back then....it was just more middle class in those days overall.

[damba]

Originally Posted by Careless

In name recognition, it's pretty obviously number one by the simple fact that it is home to a top 20 global university (ok, Northwestern is #25 this year) with a major college athletic program.

But as long as they're sending their kids to ETHS, well, north Evanston won't be in the same league.

Btw, is ETHS still spending as much money as New Trier despite having 75% as many students?

In all fairness, the demographic and educational challenges faced by ETHS are much different the the much more homogeneous NT HS district.

[847mom]

I totally agree with Damba. I find that people make a lot of judgement about ETHS and they generally go by hearsay and have no direct experience with that school district. Typical non Evanston North Shore attitude. I don't even live in Evanston nor do I have any students there, but I do not agree with what Careless said. I do have experience with both ETHS and New Trier and I can say that there are definite pros and cons for either school. A student can get an excellent education in either place. However, people who don't desire a diverse school district will often make statements that justify their own decisions of moving to places like Glencoe or Wilmette etc. that are more homogeneous. In any case, I definitely do not agree that ETHS makes North Evanston or even Evanston have less prominence or name recognition, which is the title of this thread.

[Careless]

Originally Posted by 847mom

I totally agree with Damba. I find that people make a lot of judgement about ETHS and they generally go by hearsay and have no direct experience with that school district. Typical non Evanston North Shore attitude. I don't even live in Evanston nor do I have any students there, but I do not agree with what Careless said. I do have experience with both ETHS and New Trier and I can say that there are definite pros and cons for either school. A student can get an excellent education in either place. However, people who don't desire a diverse school district will often make statements that justify their own decisions of moving to places like Glencoe or Wilmette etc. that are more homogeneous. In any case, I definitely do not agree that ETHS makes North Evanston or even Evanston have less prominence or name recognition, which is the title of this thread.

Now, I know essentially nothing of either school first hand (the only time I went to New Trier was for math in junior high a quarter century ago, and I've never set foot in ETHS), but the fact is ETHS is a school that parents not infrequently decide to move away from or not move to, and not because it's "too competitive" or "too academically stressful," although that may happen as well. Say what you will about why they do so, but that's pretty unambiguously a sign of being less prestigious.

[chet everett]

Originally Posted by Careless

Now, I know essentially nothing of either school first hand (the only time I went to New Trier was for math in junior high a quarter century ago, and I've never set foot in ETHS), but the fact is ETHS is a school that parents not infrequently decide to move away from or not move to, and not because it's "too competitive" or "too academically stressful," although that may happen as well. Say what you will about why they do so, but that's pretty unambiguously a sign of being less prestigious.

...or perhaps a poor value...

[Careless]

Originally Posted by chet everett

...or perhaps a poor value...

Huh? Evanston isn't a bad value once you get above a million or so, if you're ignoring schools.

[847mom]

Again, I totally disagree with what above is saying. I am not here to debate what public high school is more "prestigious". Ironically, my high school student goes to neither school, but a private one. ETHS is not empty from all of the people you seem to think are leaving or moving away from it. In fact, that has not been my experience with it at all, and I am acquainted with many families within that district. If you feel high schools dictate the level of prestige in a community, that is your opinion. The subject matter of this thread is about what suburbs are the most prestigious, and I still do not feel that ETHS makes Evanston less prestigious, overall or a poor value. Evanston is a unique community and it wouldn't be for everyone, especially those that are more accustomed to homogeneity. It would depend on preferences and or personal values/choices. This a subjective topic for sure.

[damba]

Originally Posted by 847mom

Again, I totally disagree with what above is saying. I am not here to debate what public high school is more "prestigious". Ironically, my high school student goes to neither school, but a private one. ETHS is not empty from all of the people you seem to think are leaving or moving away from it. In fact, that has not been my experience with it at all, and I am acquainted with many families within that district. If you feel high schools dictate the level of prestige in a community, that is your opinion. The subject matter of this thread is about what suburbs are the most prestigious, and I still do not feel that ETHS makes Evanston less prestigious, overall or a poor value. Evanston is a unique community and it wouldn't be for everyone, especially those that are more accustomed to homogeneity. It would depend on preferences and or personal values/choices. This a subjective topic for sure.

Agreed. If anything, it's Evanston K-8 that they are fleeing, and not ETHS.

[chet everett]

Originally Posted by damba

Agreed. If anything, it's Evanston K-8 that they are fleeing, and not ETHS.

There is not "flight" in the sense that such things once caused a rapid exodus of folks to different towns when leaving behind the long established ethnic areas of Chicago that became threatened with urban unrest.

What is absolutely a factor is that parents who consider the value offered by the cost of housing (including taxes...) in Evanston compared to towns that have many of the same positive attributes as far as location / amenities they can get more for their total investment in other towns that have markedly better schools. Of course there are some folks that willing choose Evanston for its other attributes, notably the racial mix, who barring literally unthinkable escalation of violence, would never consider any other place.

Simple math:
https://www.redfin.com/IL/Evanston/9.../home/13579655
Tax: $11,829
vs
https://www.redfin.com/IL/Wilmette/1.../home/13774694
Tax: $8,558

Very similar price of entry, home style very similar, as are overall sizes, but the Evanston home served by ETHS is going to cost about $3k more in taxes than the Wilmette home served by NT. There may be other situations where this is harder to compare, but this took me two clicks...

[bluedog_]

Originally Posted by chet everett

There is not "flight" in the sense that such things once caused a rapid exodus of folks to different towns when leaving behind the long established ethnic areas of Chicago that became threatened with urban unrest.

What is absolutely a factor is that parents who consider the value offered by the cost of housing (including taxes...) in Evanston compared to towns that have many of the same positive attributes as far as location / amenities they can get more for their total investment in other towns that have markedly better schools. Of course there are some folks that willing choose Evanston for its other attributes, notably the racial mix, who barring literally unthinkable escalation of violence, would never consider any other place.

Simple math:
https://www.redfin.com/IL/Evanston/9.../home/13579655
Tax: $11,829
vs
https://www.redfin.com/IL/Wilmette/1.../home/13774694
Tax: $8,558

Very similar price of entry, home style very similar, as are overall sizes, but the Evanston home served by ETHS is going to cost about $3k more in taxes than the Wilmette home served by NT. There may be other situations where this is harder to compare, but this took me two clicks...

I agree that Evanston taxes are slightly higher, but the Wilmette house you chose was assessed at 402,580 whereas the Evanston house was assessed at 464,860, so they're not equivalent (15% difference). Evanston taxes in desirable neighborhoods have to be slightly higher since there are neighborhoods where the tax base is much lower.

I grew up in Wilmette (lived for 18+ years) and chose to purchase a home in Evanston less than a year ago after living in Chicago for 7 years. I can tell you among my cohort (educated millennials) there is as MAJOR shift to wanting to live in urban/walkable communities. I also considered Lincoln Square/Andersonville/Ravenswood areas, but thought Evanston would provide a better lifestyle (better schools than those in the city, particularly at the high school level and not having to roll the dice with magnet schools, which is ironic considering the conversation here about ETHS being behind NTHS) and sometimes a faster commute downtown using the Metra (I live within walking distance to Davis). The multiculturalism and diversity is also appealing, although I get that some individuals don't want to live in the same city as poor people/crime (which often correlate)

I agree that you can declare with more certainty that somebody living in Winnetka is "fancy," whereas somebody living in Evanston you have no idea because there is a such a mix -- including multi-million dollar mansions near the lake, condos near downtown, and $70k houses in west Evanston that are about to fall apart. But obviously, something about Evanston must be appealing among those with cachet or those multi-million dollar houses along the lake would never be bought for those prices.

Not the end all be all, but if you look at Zillow's "market temp" for Winnetka, for example, it shows neutral whereas Evanston is "very hot" (and that includes the "bad" areas!). http://www.zillow.com/winnetka-il/home-values
http://www.zillow.com/evanston-il/home-values
(This could also simply be a function of the housing stock of Winnetka being higher priced and moving slower. I recall seeing the absorption rate of Kenilworth being something like 40 months at one point!)

I expect this trend to continue among those in the their late 20s/early 30s and nice SFH's in Evanston as well as good neighborhoods in the city will be the main targets of these younger buyers. Time will tell though...

(On a sidenote, being a NTHS graduate who went on to a top ten university, I consider New Trier overrated....I think a highly motivated student with involved parents will succeed and rise to the top at any high school and be prepared for a top college as long as the school meets some minimum threshold -- you can't really be prepared for the rigor of a top university after having gone to a school with an average ACT score of 18 and only 20% of students going to college. In fact, I might argue NT is *bad* for getting into top colleges as it can be hyper-competitive).

</Standing up for Evanston's appealing attributes, but that doesn't mean I disagree with the generalized "prestige" factors of placing Evanston at the bottom of NS suburbs since you simply don't know. But if somebody lives in a 5 BR home on Hinman....>