Diversity in the South Suburbs...

[NYrules]

Originally Posted by sukwoo

Despite often disagreeing with NYrules, I think his points are valid that Oak Park has some unique advantages and amenities which are not shared by most other suburbs.

I appreciate the challenges trust me I really do. I'm sure if I had a name like ChicagoRules people would just more of less agree with me on here, which is why I had to fan the flames so to say. LOL! J/K But I know that my name on here just gets the long timers (Chicago can do no wrong thinkers) on here to grind their teeth.

[Avengerfire]

Originally Posted by phoebe bird

Have you ever lived in Oak Park? Have you ever even been there? It's my hometown. I challenge your assumptions. I-290 is sometimes at a complete standstill--and the Blue Line (or is it the Orange Line? I still think of it as the Lake Dan Ryan), I do believe, was out of commission for quite a while while renovating, so your assertions are baseless.

The Green Line was out of commission for about two years ,but the Congress branch of the Blue Line (which parallels the Green Line a mere 10 blocks or so south of the Green Line) was not.

[phoebe bird]

Originally Posted by Avengerfire

The Green Line was out of commission for about two years ,but the Congress branch of the Blue Line (which parallels the Green Line a mere 10 blocks or so south of the Green Line) was not.

I stand corrected. It was the Green line. Although I still visit fairly regularly, I have not lived in Oak Park since about '83. It was the frickin' Lake-Dan Ryan line at that time. I know that the Dan Ryan line is on a different system. And the Congress line would have been fairly worthless to the "north siders" (of which I was one) who relied on the Lake Street line, which was out of commission for a couple of years. Can we beat this dead horse any further?

[phoebe bird]

Originally Posted by Avengerfire

Huh????????
How long have you lived in Chicago?

Most of my life--mostly in towns/neighborhoods ending in Park (e.g., Hyde Park, Rogers Park, Oak Park, Wicker Park)...purely by coincidence, however.

[phoebe bird]

Originally Posted by NYrules

First off NO you didn't say IF, you said it happened. Next been in Chicago on and off for over 30 years, last not really any of your business.

Huh? What are you talking about re: "if" vs. "it did"? If you are referring to the L not running, it DID happen--for two years in the '90s.

And the only reason I asked how long you have lived in this area and what areas you have lived in Chicagoland is because I have been trying to figure out what qualifies you to be an expert about different neighborhoods and suburbs--if you've never lived in them or at least spent any time there? Not meant as a personal attack--just trying to understand your qualifications, 'cause you have logged many, many posts on these boards and I see your screen name in just about every thread I have read, and you come across as a voice of authority. So I'm just trying to get why that is so? I mean, do you work for an urban planning dept? Are you a professor of urban planning or sociology? Are you a local politician? Thanks!

[Cinema]

Old post and not sure if the original poster is still around, but I agree that Beverly, though not a 'burb, is a nice diverse area. At least the area where my friend and her family live. There area/block is as diverse as it gets and they hold block parties, have a block directory, everyone decorates their houses and hangs out during halloween, and all that good neighborly stuff. However, I don't see a lot of diversity at the local mall (The Plaza, formerly Evergreen Plaza) and the Applebees located adjacent to the mall. I do know that there are few houses that come on the market, so I assume people are staying put.

I for one like Homewood. I don't live there, but my children take dance and music lessons there. The diversity at her dance academy (she's been there for 5 years) has not changed. I know you can't go by that, but at least the families of the little ballerinas aren't fleeing :-). When I do pay attention to the folks getting off at the Homewood metra stop I haven't noticed a huge difference (i.e, more blacks getting off than whites). All the restaurants, grocery stores and entertainment areas we frequent seem to be diverse also.

Someone mentioned Matteson, but I don't think it's as diverse as it might look on paper, not based on the racial breakout of the schools. If you want to find a place that isn't going to "turn Black" in the near future you might have to go further south like Crete-Monee or Bourbannais(sp?), but I don't know much about those areas, except they have the type of housing you'd like.

Honestly, the only places that come to mind that fit what you're looking for (diversity and house style) is Oak Park, Bolingbrook and Evanston, all of which would give you too long of a commute. I know it's always good to plan for the future, but right now with it being just you and your wife, my choice would be the Homewood-Flossmoor area. By the time your future kids reach school age, you'll know if you want to stay put or move on. It has affordable housing and McMansions. Right now, both H-F and Oak Park's high schools are going through transitions (fights, higher suspension rates among Blacks, racial learning gap, etc.) yet they remain on the list of top high schools in the state. And though Oak Park has great diversity, it still has areas within the town that aren't diverse (more Whites on the north, more Blacks near the OP/Chicago border).

Obviously, you CAN have the suburban life you dream of, it just may not be in the southern suburbs. So you have to ask yourself, do you want the dream life and the commute from hell, or do you want to be close to work but live in a non-diverse community (or a currently diverse community that may not remain that way)?

If you go here: Illinois Bigger Cities (over 6000 residents) and look at the data for Homewood and Flossmoor, you'll see the racial mix, however, I don't know how current the stats are. If you read this, good luck with your search, I hope you'll come back and let us know what you decided.

[cruiser69]

Originally Posted by prairiestate

I have a simple question to ask. Within the past week, a man was shot in Richton Park, in what appears to be an robbery attempt. Two people were shot in South Holland, in what appears to be a gang related shooting. Why should we assume that these types of incidents (random street violence and shootings) will NOT occur on a regular basis? When I was growing up in Evergreen Park, less then twenty years ago, there was very little, if any, violent crime in Ashburn, right over the border. Today, with a predominantly black population, there are armed robberies and gang related shootings listed in the Southtown on a regular basis. My brother-in-law grew up in Richton Park, and within the past ten years, he's known people who have been robbed and shot in that town. Yes crime can happen anywhere, look at what happened down the street in Tinley Park. That incident, though, doesn't fit into a pattern of crime which you see in other south suburban towns. The Tinley Park killings appear to be very much a random and isolated incident. How can I feel reassured that I'm not going to be caught in the middle of a drive by shooting in South Holland, Country Club Hills or Richton Park? And don't ask me how I can feel safe from a drive by shooting in any town. Try to find the last time such random street violence has occurred in Tinley Park, let alone Wheaton or Schaumburg.

Yes, it definately shows a trend. Being a former resident of Homewood and Park Forest, i can tell you that once the gangs move in and no longer fear the police, it gets out of control fast. My grandfather was on the Homewood police force for over 50 years and could definatly point out the changes in crime as the population makeup began to change. Its a fact. Crime is crime. You cant stick your head in the sand and pretend its not happening. I do agree that if you can stay and hang on to your community by standing up to negative change, it can be done. The key to a neighborhoods stability is the public schools. The problem is school administrators bow to almost any complaints associated with the discipline of some minority students because they are afraid of a lawsuit. That has to stop. If you misbehave regardless of race, you are disciplined, period. If a lawsuit is found to be frivoulous then the parent and student should face jail time and a fine. An accusation that is unfounded should be treated as a seroius crime.

Any racial name calling by any race in public or school should not be tolerated and should be delt with accordingly and treated as a defamation of character. Anyway, back to Homewood and Park Forest...

We were some of the last holdouts in the CO Ops of Park Forest. We had many african american neighbors we were friends with and they expressed their own discust of people of their own race ruining our community. We were tired of the stare downs, break ins, and finally when i found two dime bags on my front lawn i had had enough. Western avenue was a run down embarrasement of pawn shops, liquor stores, and empty shopping centers. New buisnesses tried to start up in the community but shut down monthes later due to robberies and theft. The main problem was the huge amount of section 8 housing and rentals in Park Forest.

People who grow up with diffrent levels of income and education are simply raised diffrently then others. Look at me, i dont spell very well but i still get my point across. Usually poorer americans who grow up around drugs and violence will grow up that way too. The key is integrating at a very young age. Not when kids are in their teens because for the most part its too late. You cant turn R Kelly into Paul Simon nor should you. Dont bus kids into communities who are not used to that kind of lifestyle. Kids in rough neighborhoods think nothing of cursing a teacher and assulting one in the classroom where kids in an upscale community know thats not appropriate. It sets a bad example. People have gotten angry in Homewood and other communities because of the "takeover" mentality. We had african americans, latino americans, and asian americans in Homewood back in the early 1980's and we all got along fine in school. Its when you have too many of one minority take over a town or school is when problems tend to arise. You must have a balance.

It can go the same way for too many whites in a school too! I attended a small town high school where minorities were not allowed to move into the community. Thats bad too. They used the "n" word in school and didnt care for any other races or religons but their own. This was not the concensus of the whole town but enough agreed that no changes were made. There was no violent crime or break ins in the community, but the price to pay for that was racial intolerance. What year was this you ask? The 1990's!!

You must have a diverse, well balanced community to make it work. Their are no exceptions. If we do not intergrate to a point, we will end up in ethnic cleansing wars like the middle east that will go on forever. Racially mixed families do help somewhat but until all of us learn to be respectful and understanding to everyones needs and stop the special treatment for anyone for any reason, the cycle will continue. Read history and you will know the outcome. Its happened before and will happen again.

[gwilson67]

As a black male, I've learned to pay no attention to a particular ethnicity of where I live. Low taxes, property values, decent neighbors are at the top of my list.

[Barnacle_Bill]

Lansing, Glenwood, Munster (IN), Crete, just to name a few, are suburbs of varying degrees of diversity. I've lived in Glenwood since 1974 and have witnessed the evolution of the demographics, and it's impact upon the neighborhoods. Reality is, at least from my perspective, living in a 500 home subdivision, which initially, was 95% white in 74, until now, 2008, we're at 95% black - that most of the blacks are decent, hard-working, family-oriented, good neighbors and seeking the same dream that we all strive to attain. I'm among the 5%. My adjoining black neighbors are good people and I would be happy to have them as neighbors, wherever I live.

Problem is, as with all the adjoining towns I've mentioned, these good people unavoidably are followed by the scum-bags, gang-bangers and low-life that are infesting these once safe and peaceful neighborhoods. They simply have a totally different mental attitude, behavioral pattern and destructive impact on society.

Glenwood, Lansing, Crete, Munster(IN) are in varying stages of change. What I have objectively observed throughout all my years of living in Chicago and Glenwood is, the common demoninator that most negatively impact these suburbs is the change in demographics. The upstanding, law-abiding blacks that come to these suburbs unavoidably are followed by the undesirables who wreck havoc on crime statistics, dumbing-down of the educational system and the general decline in the quality of life to the affected suburban towns. Reality is, the decent blacks are just as affected by these social misfits as are whites.

While these towns are relatively ok, today, I've witnessed enough to understand that the future is bleak for these neighborhoods. It's not simply the observation of a white person perspective, rather, the reality of what once was, and what the future will be, based upon consistent, unwavering patterns and undeniable facts. I've lived through these transformations and know of what I speak . .