Orland Park to U of C via metra at Olympia (Chicago: work, housing)

[chet everett]

You do realize that Frankfort has no train service? You'd have to drive to like University Park or something near the end of the Metra Electric line. As I said, I think that while "on paper" that is not impossible the day-to-day hassles, costs, and wear-and-tear on your car, your emotions and your family life can really add up.

Frankfort is a nice town, but it is pretty "sprawly" so that you will need to have a second car for your spouse to do anything. You will end up driving a lot too. It is a TOTALLY different life than if you were to live in the City or even Oak Park.

[sbd78]

Originally Posted by chet everett

You do realize that Frankfort has no train service? You'd have to drive to like University Park or something near the end of the Metra Electric line.

Technically speaking Frankfort has no train service, although the Hickory Creek/Mokena stop on the Rock Island Line is practically in Frankfort. Problem is, the Rock Island Line doesn't stop at U of C, only the electric line does.

[ParkForester]

Chet, I agree. I take the Metra Electric everyday for the past 10 years and after awhile it really gets to you, especially during the winter months when all I want to do is get home.

Another thing to consider is that there is a dollar a day fee to use the Metra parking lots along the Electric line. You can buy a monthly pass from the village for $30 but you will have to add that cost to your monthly ticket and gas fees. It adds up after awhile.

[rongoe]

I think Richton Park station will be the closest Metra Electric station for me in Frankfort, though perhaps the 211th street one if I were to be in the Northern part.

I'm sure parking, metra pass, and gas will add up, but commuting in a big city is unavoidably expensive isn't it? Sure I could live in Hyde Park and walk, but the Lab school is over $10k per kid (with the university discount) and housing is *very* expensive there.

Commuting by car, even from inner burbs, is expensive since parking at U of C is expensive. I think it's over $125/month. The metra fare would be around $116 monthly, plus $30 for parking. Gas is minimal for the 6 mile or so trip to the station (my Vibe gets 30 in the city). Given the high parking price, I think it's cheaper to use the train than to drive. Plus my time on the train can be semi-productive, whereas my time driving is probably not very enjoyable, or productive. Plus the express train seems pretty fast -- 30 minutes to 59th street from Richton Station.

Thanks again for the various inputs and suggestions.

[chet everett]

Not everyone that lives in Hyde Park uses Lab. The two CPS elementary schools are pretty good, high school options include Kenwood and all the magnet schools.

I don't know what sort of arrangement the UofC has with regard to parking, but even living in the City and relying on CTA might be an option. The commute to the Hyde Park from points north is far easier less distance than heading out to Will Co.

The problem that I foresee is that in attempting to drive to a Metra station, park, cart your stuff into train car, settle in for the 30 minutes or so ride then walk to the campus and do the whole thing in reverse it quickly turns an 8and half hour work day into something much more like 10+ hours. The distances you are talking about probably 30+ miles and the suburban drive portion is likely to get much slower over time.By living right in a town that had train service you could almost certainly shave a solid 15 minutes off each end of the day. That makes a huge difference when there is anything you want to do with you kids...

[Manigault]

Originally Posted by rongoe

My interest in finding out whether Flossmoor differs from the typical white flight scenario indicates that race alone isn't an issue for me. Why would that attitude get me odd looks in HP?

You will get odd looks because the place has had the same racial balance for about 40 years and black folks outnumber white folks. Plus, the Hyde Park public grammar schools are excellent but they have a black majority. Unlike other major teaching universities, most UofC faculty live in Hyde Park.

So, if you start equating majority blackness as a slippery slope, or evidence of instability or of an area growing worse, folks will be at least unfamiliar with your views and may have directly contrary thoughts. The most polite will just look at you funny.

[chet everett]

I dunno how much of the faculty lives in Hyde Park. There are some profs who live in the 'burbs too -- even out near Argonne, south of Hinsdale, which the University runs under contract to the DOE. There are some profs with similar postings at Fermi lab in Batavia. Research | The University of Chicago

There are physicians on staff at the UofC hospitals all over the city and 'burbs.

The administration is fairly tuned-in to racial issues in the area and beyond, Senator Obama's wife holds a position in "community outreach" or something similar at a salary considerably greater than the Senator's... Michelle Obama - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And by no means are all the minorities in the area super achievers -- people from a variety of educational and income levels live pretty much side-by-side in Hyde Park, more-so than any other neighborhood in the City.

Flossmoor actually has long time ties to UofC. Many faculty members have made their hmes there, including former Assoc. Provost Robert Graves. Robert L. Graves, Deputy Dean of the University of Chicago Graduate School of Business, 1926-2004

Because of this association with faculty the UofC hospitals has a major pediatric facility in Flossmoor. Child Life Center--Flossmoor - University of Chicago Medical Center

[rongoe]

Originally Posted by Manigault

You will get odd looks because the place has had the same racial balance for about 40 years and black folks outnumber white folks. Plus, the Hyde Park public grammar schools are excellent but they have a black majority. Unlike other major teaching universities, most UofC faculty live in Hyde Park.

So, if you start equating majority blackness as a slippery slope, or evidence of instability or of an area growing worse, folks will be at least unfamiliar with your views and may have directly contrary thoughts. The most polite will just look at you funny.

My reference to "instability" was in regard to the *changing* racial composition, not to any particular level itself (black or white). If racial composition is changing by 3% a year, then the racial composition is clearly not in a "steady state". My initial question is whether these changes are associated with other changes one should be concerned about. (i.e., "the all else equal" question discussed previously.)

In no way did I imply that a community that is majority black is unstable.

In reference to other posts here, no other U of C faculty had mentioned to me the possibility of living in Hyde Park and using CPS. They only mentioned the Lab. I'll ask around more directly about CPS in Hyde Park.

How hard is it to get into the CPS magnet schools?

[rongoe]

So, you got me thinking I shouldn't rule out Hyde Park public schools. Okay, great, let's check out what's available to buy ... search for 4 bedrooms (or more) under $1 million (which is actually a fair amount above what I can afford). Only NINE houses come up, and only FOUR of those are under $799k.

So, my question is, where are all of these U of C employees living?? Did they buy in before prices skyrocketed? Do their spouses' incomes make it affordable? I just don't see how it would work for most families. (With fewer kids, condos on the lake would work, but a family of 6 in a 3 bedroom condo -- no thanks.)

I guess the train it is. Unless you all have some suggestions. I'm open.

[chet everett]

The magnet schools were set up in response to racial imbalances that exist in the distribution of students. That is a big part of the criteria. The academic ability of the students is another big component. There are also subjective components -- students need to be well behaved and cooperative. And finally some "lottery" type components. Just about all the schools have some slots for neighborhood kids too, though some of the schools are "city wide" with no neighborhood slots.

For the k-6 schools that serve Hyde Park the neighborhood slots are generally sufficient. The subjective factors also ensure that the kids nearby will generally be OK. Kenwood runs a 7-12 program for academically talented kids that is pretty competitive, but it used to be better. Kenwood Academy High School
Whitney Young has a similar program as do other schools --
Whitney M. Young Magnet High School
Morgan Park High School
(the other three similar programs are so poorly documented that I dare not try to link to them...)

The whole mess is listed, but not explained very well, in the CPS document:
http://www.cpsgifted.org/pdf/Applica...pdf?rn=1512363
Here is another expensive incomplete site the CPS runs:
CPS Magnet Program

At least one school has a process that exists outside of this:
Lincoln Park High School

How hard is it to get into the top performing high schools? Those would be the all selective admission Northside Prep & Payton.They are VERY competitive. There is some question as to how much the "subjective" factors matter as well, though the students that do get in certainly seem to be among the most talented in the state. Similar praise can go to the small number of students that are selected for and complete the IB program at Lincoln Park HS, where academic preparation and self-directedness are paramount, though the rest of the school is quite different.

A strategy that many successful high school students have in Chicago is not unlike that of applying to colleges -- stretch for Northside, Payton or LPHS, back that up with Whitney Young, Kenwood, Lane, maybe Jones or Brooks. Keep you fingers crossed for a scholarship to Ignatius or Francis Parker. Worst case? Move in with friends / relatives in a suburb...

It a rather convoluted stew that CPS cooks up, but is sorta works for the people that master it.

You are correct that a family with four kids is definitely not going to find spacious affordable residence in Hyde Park. Many of the City dwellers take CTA in form Beverly or Morgan Park on the southside, where the home prices are bit less intimidating or points on the northside, though appreciation has driven many places out of reach for all but the most highly compensated staff/faculty.

Plenty of UofC do live in the burbs. The train commute is not impossible, but from direct from Flossmoor is heck of a lot less disruptive than a multi-legged endeavor. Fuel efficient vehicles are a must ...