lake forest (Chicago, Evanston, North Chicago: fit in, real estate, refinancing)

[aztoga]

I have heard that Lake Forest is quite an exclusive area. Compared to where I currently live though, I see a nice wide range of housing prices which is appealing to me. It seems like a beautiful area. We like the looks of Glencoe and Winnetka too, but those towns seem much more expensive. We love the idea of living near the lake and we are impressed with the school choices available. Can anyone shed some light on the differences of these areas for me?

Additional considerations for us: my husband and I have 4 children and we are a multi-racial, liberal, Catholic family. We would be looking for a neighborhood where we will feel 'at home'. I welcome any feedback that you can provide.

[chet everett]

Lake Forest is an area with a HUGE percentage of VERY costly homes. From the "untouchable" estates on Lake Michigan to the larger homes that border the tollroad there are no bargains to be had.

Don't really know where you could be seeing as wide range of prices, it is extremely rare for anything to change hands in Lake Forest for under $700,000 in an open sale. The single family detached that sell for less than that are almost certainly going to be torn down. Some of the data that works its way into the "sales" systems are really refinancing /title transfers/ and intra-family dealings.

Median home prices and household income are among the highest anywhere.

I do not think that you will really find any "less expensive" towns on the true North Shore that stretch from Evanston to the Naval Training Station at Great Lakes/North Chicago.

If you do find something that you can afford I would have no reservation about being an 'outsider' due to mixed race/politics/faith. With the acceptance that sports figures and political leaders have helped to foster in high income areas there is much less overt racial discrimination. Similarly the success /publicity of truly wealthy politicians in the DNC have made the GOP a lot less the party of the rich despite the perennial cries of those who claim only one party has tax cuts for their friends. In all of the metro region there are representatives of well off people, and not so well off people of all faith backgrounds.

[aztoga]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

While I know that $700K homes are considered expensive in Chicago, in the neighborhood where I live (Arcadia neighborhood of Phoenix, AZ) little 3BR homes on small lots are selling for about that much. It seems that $700K buys a lot more- even in Chicago's North Shore- than it does here. Given what we could sell our home for here, we would look for homes up to $1 million in Chicago and it appears that we would have lots of choices.

Additionally, I do appreciate your insight regarding how well our family would fit in. I am sure that any area outside Chicago will be more diverse than where we live now! I continue to do research on the various lake front towns and it seems that there are lots of family friendly activities and establishments in Wilmette. Maybe Glencoe too.

Anyway, thanks again!

[Paige65]

I think your assessment of Lake Forest is correct. Not knowing where you come from, it may very well seem affordable with a wide range of housing. There are homes from $600,000 to $15,000,000 (and maybe more). The homes near the town center tend to be smaller and more affordable. The same is true of most of the towns on the North Shore, from Evanston to Lake Bluff. You can find $500,000 homes in most of these towns, but that low end won't get you much. It doesn't sound like you necessarily need to look at the low end, and with four children, probably wouldn't find the space you are looking for in the $500,000-$650,000 market.

Evanston will be most liberal followed by Highland Park, but it (HP) probably has the fewest number of Catholics (though we have a mix of about 10% Catholic, 55% Protestant and 35% Jewish on my block). It's a strong mix of Jewish/Christian. If your Catholic identity is important to you, I'd probably choose Lake Forest or Winnetka. I don't think there's too much of a difference price-wise in LF and Winnetka/Glencoe, unless you are looking at the south and more western edge of LF, where you might get a little more for your money.

The schools on the North Shore are excellent. New Trier, HP, Lake Forest and Evanston are all good. At the elementary school level, for the most part, all are excellent and provide similar opportunities and test similarly (for most of the elementary schools, about 94%-98% of the students are meeting or exceeding state standards).

You will find welcoming neighborhoods up and down the North Shore. I think it will boil down to what is most important to you, most liberla, Catholic presence, commute to work, neighborhood with larger or smaller yards, walking access to beach and town, etc.

And I agree, it's beautiful, and living near the Lake is great.

[Paige65]

Originally Posted by aztoga

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

While I know that $700K homes are considered expensive in Chicago, in the neighborhood where I live (Arcadia neighborhood of Phoenix, AZ) little 3BR homes on small lots are selling for about that much. It seems that $700K buys a lot more- even in Chicago's North Shore- than it does here. Given what we could sell our home for here, we would look for homes up to $1 million in Chicago and it appears that we would have lots of choices.

Additionally, I do appreciate your insight regarding how well our family would fit in. I am sure that any area outside Chicago will be more diverse than where we live now! I continue to do research on the various lake front towns and it seems that there are lots of family friendly activities and establishments in Wilmette. Maybe Glencoe too.

Anyway, thanks again!

I'm familiar with Arcadia. I think you may get a little more for your money but not too much, especially in Winnetka/Glencoe/ Kenilworth. I don't know for sure where you are looking where $700,000 is going to buy anything more than a typical 3-4 bedroom home that probably needs updating and doesn't have a big yard. I agree that in the $1,000,000 range you have many more possibilities. A typical $800,000 to $1,000,000 house on the North Shore is either a bit larger (meaning about 4 bedrooms, MAYBE 5 and 2-2.5 baths), older, and in need of moderate to substantial updating, or a bit smaller (3 bedrooms, maybe 4), older and completely updated. Very limited new construction in that price range.

[chet everett]

There are some neighborhoods in Chicago were $300K would be considered expensive, but I don't think too many people are clamoring to live in them...

I doubt you will find too many habitable homes on the North Shore for even $700K . I picked that number simply becuase I did see some listings under that amount in Lake Forest. The target is still "teardown" as these are OLD in the outdated sense not the charming sense. If you are expecting a lot of nice four bedrooms in good condition you will need to go to much higher in price. I personally have seen places changes hands at well over $1M for teardown...

I am somewhat familiar with r.e. in Arizona. The area around Camelback is every bit as "unafforable" as the desirable areas of the North Shore and even eastern DuPage/West Cook. In general the housing stock in AZ is newer and generally bigger in terms of interior sq. ft. Things are a little tough to compare directly as the room sizes and general layout of the more traditional style houses common in the Chicago area don't translate to the lifestyles of the Southwest. The lot sizes in the established areas of Scotsdale and such are in general larger than the "in town" lots common in the established towns of the Glencoe, Winnetka, Wilmette and places similar in east Cool orDuPage like Western Springs or Hinsdale. Lake Forest has a different mix of lot sizes as the estates are quite massive, the newer subdivsions far less so, and the odd nieghborhood of homes awaiting teardown even smaller. Things outside like pools are generally negative here and a given out there. If you've read through the threads about property taxes and others trying to relocate to the area I'm sure you've seen the costs mentioned.

It is probably more likely that people will have kids around the Chicago area, and towns with good schools are really quite expensive. The demand for larger homes in areas with good commuter options to high paying jobs is pretty strong, though the shear number of people that have places to sell vs smaller number of buyers does make this an attractive time to make offers if you don't have to worry about your current home selling...

I seem to recall seeing some information suggesting that AZ was facing some budget deficits but I suspect that many wealthy retirees in the area distort the economic picture.

[Paige65]

Originally Posted by chet everett

I doubt you will find too many habitable homes on the North Shore for even $700K .

I agree with everything you said but this. There are plenty of habitable homes on the North Shore for $700K. There are trade-offs in what you get with those homes (sq. feet, lot size, distance to train or lake, etc.), but they are nice homes and there are plenty of them!

[aztoga]

Thanks for the details. I guess I didn't notice that the homes in the $700K price range would be tear downs. Good to know. Even if we end up paying a comparable price for real estate, my husband and I are looking forward to living near great schools. Public schools in Phoenix are sorely lacking and way behind Midwestern standards. We pay a lot of money to have our kids in a private school and the quality is still not what we would like. As we near our pending relocation, I will continue to research. Based on what I have read, I feel like I can narrow down my options a bit more. Thanks again for your help!

[chet everett]

Originally Posted by Paige65

I agree with everything you said but this. There are plenty of habitable homes on the North Shore for $700K. There are trade-offs in what you get with those homes (sq. feet, lot size, distance to train or lake, etc.), but they are nice homes and there are plenty of them!

You are correct, I re-read my post and I do exaggerate the situation. There are many of homes that a couple or even a family could easily live in. I am currently trying to help another family see that a home is being marketed as a $350K teardown in another area in eastern DuPage could be renovated into something really livable for less than $600K of total investment and STILL be a very smart investment. They would be dealing with a very small backyard, and a little bit of a challenge as far as not being of the quietest street, but it is would represent a very good value.

I might disagree that there are "plenty" of such homes and I think that it is what scares off some of potential buyers. The "fat part" of the price bell curve in the North Shore and more costly towns of eastern DuPage/West Cook is pretty high because the median really does represent what HAS sold and selection tapers off more sharply in the lower price tail than the upper -- people are reluctant to consider places that do have some of these trade offs when they could easily get a much nicer home in a less expensive community. A decade or so ago there WERE a lot more of the smaller homes but 10+ years of teardowns has dramatically changed the stock of older homes.

[chloemom]

I too am familiar with Arcadia - I fell in love with it when a friend lived there -
you will find Lake Forest to be similar - not much true diversity - around 1 mil you should find a "nice" home - not the home of your dreams, but very nice. good luck -