Which Chicago suburb have the worst reputation ? (Cicero, Oak Park: appointed, renting)

[At1WithNature]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

As someone else pointed out, when you control for income and educational levels, the races all look a lot more equal. Race is not the most significant factor here, and you're failing to see that. You make a comment that "Asians as a whole" are a certain way and should be respected, and that's pretty silly. I'd like to see other factors than race enter the discussion. Instead of saying, "blacks are moving into ____, so the town is going downhill" (which is racist), you could say "poor, uneducated blacks are moving into ____, so the town is going downhill". The first statement blames the problems only on race, while the second statement points to at least a couple real factors that may raise crime.

This is true and something that needed to be mentioned that not many people bring up. it's all about income...this is America afterall.

[promis1]

Originally Posted by At1WithNature

This is true and something that needed to be mentioned that not many people bring up. it's all about income...this is America afterall.

So why is it that certain minority groups dominate the lower income or poverty level? If these same groups actually have a greater chance of finding a job due to affirmative action, quotas, diversity fairs,etc.-then why do they dominate the lower class. If we need to speak of income- we need to figure why the majority of these minority groups cannot break through poverty levels. Is it because their family structure- having babies and not being held accountable? Is it their work ethic- where they may think that they should not start at the bottom in the work world- where they may blame Mexicans for taking those lower tier jobs. Is it because they would rather collect welfare,link cards, and section 8 vouchers, realizing that if they actually worked, they may lose these benefits. Or is it because many inner city youth may think it is not cool to stay in school- but instead should hang on the corner and sell dope. Whatever the case may be, if we are to look at these cases not by race, but by income-then we must examine why certain groups have not broke through these poverty level in so many years.

[GQpilot3]

the burbs with the worst rep are waukegan, north chicago, park city, and some of the south suburbs
alot of the burbs are upscale and really great places to live

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by promis1

So why is it that certain minority groups dominate the lower income or poverty level? If these same groups actually have a greater chance of finding a job due to affirmative action, quotas, diversity fairs,etc.-then why do they dominate the lower class. If we need to speak of income- we need to figure why the majority of these minority groups cannot break through poverty levels. Is it because their family structure- having babies and not being held accountable? Is it their work ethic- where they may think that they should not start at the bottom in the work world- where they may blame Mexicans for taking those lower tier jobs. Is it because they would rather collect welfare,link cards, and section 8 vouchers, realizing that if they actually worked, they may lose these benefits. Or is it because many inner city youth may think it is not cool to stay in school- but instead should hang on the corner and sell dope. Whatever the case may be, if we are to look at these cases not by race, but by income-then we must examine why certain groups have not broke through these poverty level in so many years.

All of the things you have mentioned are problems in the so-called "black community". There is definitely a cultural link to poverty and crime that affects large segments of the urban, low-income black popultation. But this is the "certain group" that has not broken through, not blacks in general. My uncle was a respected black lawyer. His dad was a world-renowned scientist who never benefited from any type of affirmative action (more like the opposite). My cousin is a black physician. So some black people have certainly "broken through the poverty level".

[IlWesleyanGuy]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

All of the things you have mentioned are problems in the so-called "black community". There is definitely a cultural link to poverty and crime that affects large segments of the urban, low-income black popultation. But this is the "certain group" that has not broken through, not blacks in general. My uncle was a respected black lawyer. His dad was a world-renowned scientist who never benefited from any type of affirmative action (more like the opposite). My cousin is a black physician. So some black people have certainly "broken through the poverty level".

It's obvious that promis1 has a hardened perception of blacks and hispanics, maybe because of the criminals that promis1 deals with. In any case, its great to see some of you stand up to the racist attitudes that are so prevalent in these threads. We all talk about living in harmony, and judging one another by our character and work ethic. But then you have sweeping generalizations of people in particular minority groups.

And some of you have the audacity to say that people of a certain race don't try to move out of the ranks of poverty, and aren't productive citizens, won't work etc. And yet you have no idea. You've never lived in these areas and have never experienced what these people have experienced. Do you know how many of these low-income urbanites try to succeed, try to get an education and move into decent areas? When they do succeed and finally moved into nicer areas you don't hear acknowledgement and praise from people instead you hear "blacks and hispanics are moving into that area, if I were you I'd get out now!". God forbid that there be plenty of stable racially diverse areas. Instead you get white flight from people who are so negative and ignorant like promis1 (despite your experience in law enforcement).

And then eventually the towns that were so great before the influx of blacks and/or hispanics go down the tubes right? That's because they become like inner cities but in the suburbs. As white flight takes place the property values usually go down and that makes it easier for people who aren't committed to bettering their lives, to move into these areas.

There is an article about Proviso West posted on this forum. It talks about how Oak Park was receptive to the black population that began moving into the town. The response was not flight, it was let's work together. Yes, we come from different areas, diff backgrounds, different races but those differences can be assests if we percieve them to be that way. Look at Oak Park and River Forest now and their school. It's pretty impressive. We need more towns like Oak Park in Chicagoland.

[At1WithNature]

Originally Posted by promis1

So why is it that certain minority groups dominate the lower income or poverty level? If these same groups actually have a greater chance of finding a job due to affirmative action, quotas, diversity fairs,etc.-then why do they dominate the lower class. If we need to speak of income- we need to figure why the majority of these minority groups cannot break through poverty levels. Is it because their family structure- having babies and not being held accountable? Is it their work ethic- where they may think that they should not start at the bottom in the work world- where they may blame Mexicans for taking those lower tier jobs. Is it because they would rather collect welfare,link cards, and section 8 vouchers, realizing that if they actually worked, they may lose these benefits. Or is it because many inner city youth may think it is not cool to stay in school- but instead should hang on the corner and sell dope. Whatever the case may be, if we are to look at these cases not by race, but by income-then we must examine why certain groups have not broke through these poverty level in so many years.

Well, there's no denying that. but if you give a minority money, the problems/crime seem to stop. this is why income is the most important indicator IMO. I think it starts with education and the government leadership. it's too bad that a lot of minority laden cities (such as Harvey) are corrupt to the bone and mismanage city funds that take away from the youth and their citizens as a whole. If minorities were given better education opportunities (at the local level) and better leadership (in the local government) then i think they would have a better income which, i believe, would lead to less strain on taxpayer's pockets (like yours and mine) and lead to less crime. And most importantly, improving their lives and the lives of others.

[At1WithNature]

Originally Posted by IlWesleyanGuy

And some of you have the audacity to say that people of a certain race don't try to move out of the ranks of poverty, and aren't productive citizens, won't work etc. And yet you have no idea. You've never lived in these areas and have never experienced what these people have experienced. Do you know how many of these low-income urbanites try to succeed, try to get an education and move into decent areas? When they do succeed and finally moved into nicer areas you don't hear acknowledgement and praise from people instead you hear "blacks and hispanics are moving into that area, if I were you I'd get out now!". God forbid that there be plenty of stable racially diverse areas.

if you don't consider race, just think about the poor. do you know how many poor people are self defeatists? they just give up on life and the idea of being better than they are now. They accept that they are at the very bottom of society and not only realize they live off of hard working americans but are proud to do it. that's where negative opinions come into play. for every 1 person of poverty trying to honestly better themselves through school and hard work, there are 5 poverty stricken people having babies as teenagers who are doomed to be a single parent thus handicapping their ability to ever leave the poverty class. that's the problem. there are too many people who have too much self hate and give up on a better life.

[promis1]

Originally Posted by IlWesleyanGuy

It's obvious that promis1 has a hardened perception of blacks and hispanics, maybe because of the criminals that promis1 deals with. In any case, its great to see some of you stand up to the racist attitudes that are so prevalent in these threads. We all talk about living in harmony, and judging one another by our character and work ethic. But then you have sweeping generalizations of people in particular minority groups.

And some of you have the audacity to say that people of a certain race don't try to move out of the ranks of poverty, and aren't productive citizens, won't work etc. And yet you have no idea. You've never lived in these areas and have never experienced what these people have experienced. Do you know how many of these low-income urbanites try to succeed, try to get an education and move into decent areas? When they do succeed and finally moved into nicer areas you don't hear acknowledgement and praise from people instead you hear "blacks and hispanics are moving into that area, if I were you I'd get out now!". God forbid that there be plenty of stable racially diverse areas. Instead you get white flight from people who are so negative and ignorant like promis1 (despite your experience in law enforcement).

And then eventually the towns that were so great before the influx of blacks and/or hispanics go down the tubes right? That's because they become like inner cities but in the suburbs. As white flight takes place the property values usually go down and that makes it easier for people who aren't committed to bettering their lives, to move into these areas.

There is an article about Proviso West posted on this forum. It talks about how Oak Park was receptive to the black population that began moving into the town. The response was not flight, it was let's work together. Yes, we come from different areas, diff backgrounds, different races but those differences can be assests if we percieve them to be that way. Look at Oak Park and River Forest now and their school. It's pretty impressive. We need more towns like Oak Park in Chicagoland.

That is your opinion but I know that Oak Park was a much safer place 40 years ago. Diversity in the community,especially in their high school has not made this town any safer. In fact, there are parts of Oak park that are quite unsafe to walk at night-say the corner of Lake/Austin or anywhere in that vicinity. Oak Park is a town that is known for its extreme liberalism- you either will love or hate this town I personally cannot stand this town as I feel that there is something in the water there that makes people so darn weird. If America becomes a big Oak Park- I will leave this country and never look back.

[ajolotl]

Originally Posted by promis1

I will leave this country and never look back.

Where will you go?

[Mister Mappy]

I hear Antarctica is nice. Especially in July.