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I'm still curious as to why African-Americans did not, by and large, improve their own communities over time. That would have given them the missing equity you speak of, and perhaps a more level playing field in the educational arena. I don't think this question has been answered yet. I'm a liberal person and believe in equality. So I tend to think the idea that blacks need whites to maintain good communities is, well, racist to be honest. I'm open to arguments on this score but the idea that just because whites leave means property values must go down seems to be a very elitist position to take.
The size of the black middle class is thin compared to the white middle class. If white flight were to occur, very few blacks have the financial ability to buy the abandoned homes to support property values. The market for these homes will shrink dramatically. Prices will have nowhere to go but down. If the black middle and upper class were much larger, the departure of white people would likely not cause such a precipitous decline in property values.
So no, there's nothing racist or elitist about this argument. It is based on the economic reality that blacks have little historical wealth to speak of, and that their middle class is not as broad as the white middle class.
The size of the black middle class is thin compared to the white middle class. If white flight were to occur, very few blacks have the financial ability to buy the abandoned homes to support property values. The market for these homes will shrink dramatically. Prices will have nowhere to go but down. If the black middle and upper class were much larger, the departure of white people would likely not cause such a precipitous decline in property values.
So no, there's nothing racist or elitist about this argument. It is based on the economic reality that blacks have little historical wealth to speak of, and that their middle class is not as broad as the white middle class.
Ok, why not build it? It's also true that each successive generation of white Europeans has tended to have higher and higher incomes (as well as higher and higher levels of educational attainment). At least that's true in my family. My family's first generations, on both sides, had almost nothing when they came here and were not educated. Manual laborers basically. I'm sure we're not unique. Thoughts on that?
Ok, why not build it? It's also true that each successive generation of white Europeans has tended to have higher and higher incomes (as well as higher and higher levels of educational attainment). At least that's true in my family. My family's first generations, on both sides, had almost nothing when they came here and were not educated. Manual laborers basically. I'm sure we're not unique. Thoughts on that?
White Europeans came to this country as free people. They didn't come as slaves. Even though many Europeans were poor when they first came over, they did not come shackled in chains. They had property rights from the get go (at least the men did). It was easy for them to acquire property and pass this on to their children. They had a significant head start in the wealth accumulation contest.
Meanwhile, blacks came here as someone else's property. For a long time, they had no right to own their own property. Even after emancipation and after they earned the right to vote, blacks still faced institutional racism that prevented them from accumulating significant wealth. I have already mentioned the practice of redlining, which was quite common even until the 1990s. How can anyone gain any wealth in this context? Black oppression caused black poverty. Black poverty destroyed the black family. No wonder black kids from inner cities perform badly in schools - the deck of cards has been stacked heavily against them.
But black kids aren't dumb for scoring low on a silly IQ test. I would even submit that their entire experience in America is itself an IQ test which has been designed for them to fail. I doubt any other ethnic group subjected to the same "test" would do so well.
Interestingly enough, recent African immigrants to the US manage to escape the fate of native born American blacks. These immigrants are not descendants of slaves. They tend to be better educated, have intact families, work in high paying jobs....many are even doctors (mostly Nigerian). Check out the blacks with African accents, and chances are they have good professional jobs. Okay, some may be working as cab drivers in New York or Chicago but the point is, they do work. Why the difference? Perhaps the historical experience of slavery of American blacks is just too overwhelming.
White Europeans came to this country as free people. They didn't come as slaves. Even though many Europeans were poor when they first came over, they did not come shackled in chains. They had property rights from the get go (at least the men did). It was easy for them to acquire property and pass this on to their children. They had a significant head start in the wealth accumulation contest.
Meanwhile, blacks came here as someone else's property. For a long time, they had no right to own their own property. Even after emancipation and after they earned the right to vote, blacks still faced institutional racism that prevented them from accumulating significant wealth. I have already mentioned the practice of redlining, which was quite common even until the 1990s. How can anyone gain any wealth in this context? Black oppression caused black poverty. Black poverty destroyed the black family. No wonder black kids from inner cities perform badly in schools - the deck of cards has been stacked heavily against them.
But black kids aren't dumb for scoring low on a silly IQ test. I would even submit that their entire experience in America is itself an IQ test which has been designed for them to fail. I doubt any other ethnic group subjected to the same "test" would do so well.
Interestingly enough, recent African immigrants to the US manage to escape the fate of native born American blacks. These immigrants are not descendants of slaves. They tend to be better educated, have intact families, work in high paying jobs....many are even doctors (mostly Nigerian). Check out the blacks with African accents, and chances are they have good professional jobs. Okay, some may be working as cab drivers in New York or Chicago but the point is, they do work. Why the difference? Perhaps the historical experience of slavery of American blacks is just too overwhelming.
Well, everyone's had the right to own property for quite some time. A drive through Austin, which has been majority African American for 35 years now, reveals an area in a terrible condition of high poverty. Garfield Park and Englewood have been majority African-American considerably longer, and are in many ways worse. Even the most basic things would improve them.
Question is why. If it's because of slavery, well, yes, it happened, and it was a terrible thing. But if the African-American community is incapable of improving on their situation because of that, you're basically saying it will never change. That seems selfish and unfair to future generations, nor do I believe it's true.
Many white European groups went through oppression and ill-treatment since the days of slavery too. They faced prejudices also and many made considerable sacrifices to form labor unions to gain a fair wage and basic respect (see e.g. 1877 railroad strikes and the Haymarket affair). Their successive generations improved themselves to join the middle and upper middle classes in large numbers.
At risk of sounding like some of the neo-conservatives on here, I'll stop with that! I think you get my point. There were terrible sins in the past but the damage has to be stopped somewhere.
Yeah, Asians and Jews are intellectually superior to whites. Let's stop pretending otherwise. White kids should cede their college slots to Asians and Jews. Why waste money on white trash when we can invest it on the 2 groups that have the proven brainpower to make this country great? The future of this country lies in the Asians and Jews.
WOW!!!!! You are a bona fide White-hating bigot!!!
Ask yourself why Asians and Jews have moved to White nations, and never vice-versa.
You can talk about Asian IQ, but you have nothing but anti-white racism to back that up, considering that Japan, China and Korea have not produced societies that rival that of the Western World. Asians move en masse to where WHITES ARE, and never vice-versa, and there is never ANY PROOF whatsoever that Whites want to move to non-white nations. EVER. Whites have a centuries long history of avoiding Jews. So, if Whites are "inferior" in your warped anti-White racist brain, then the anti-proof exists that people (asian, jews, you name it) want to be around White nations.
Regarding the Jews.........hmmmmmm. You won't get the argument from me that they have the same IQ as do the Africans, and the differences between a Jew and a black is all about "social construction".
I am glad you are making progress with this subject, and rejecting the anti-White racist orthodoxy that so many White-hating bigots push.
Cheers.
Last edited by GMarshfield; 09-02-2008 at 09:13 PM..
Well, everyone's had the right to own property for quite some time. A drive through Austin, which has been majority African American for 35 years now, reveals an area in a terrible condition of high poverty. Garfield Park and Englewood have been majority African-American considerably longer, and are in many ways worse. Even the most basic things would improve them
.
The blacks that live in Austin, Garfield, etc are not middle class. That's the problem. If there were more middle class blacks, there would be more money to go around to improve and beautify the area. The question is, why aren't there more middle and upper class blacks? I need not beat a dead horse, but please check out my post on redlining.
Quote:
Question is why. If it's because of slavery, well, yes, it happened, and it was a terrible thing. But if the African-American community is incapable of improving on their situation because of that, you're basically saying it will never change. That seems selfish and unfair to future generations, nor do I believe it's true.
I don't believe blacks will not improve. I believe, however, that the obstacles they have to surmount are much larger than the obstacles that a white family has to surmount to attain the same level of progress. Blacks are under a constant cloud of suspicion. I work in health care and see this all the time. A black patient who comes to the ER in pain and asking for pain medications is given a hard time while a white patient is treated liberally without being suspected of being a drug addict. Just a simple observation from someone like myself who works in the trenches.
Quote:
Many white European groups went through oppression and ill-treatment since the days of slavery too. They faced prejudices also and many made considerable sacrifices to form labor unions to gain a fair wage and basic respect (see e.g. 1877 railroad strikes and the Haymarket affair). Their successive generations improved themselves to join the middle and upper middle classes in large numbers.
Well at least they were paid a wage and were able to form labor unions. Black slaves had no such options. Not to minimize their suffering, but the hardships of white Europeans pale (excuse the pun) in comparison to the hardships of blacks.
I'm not here to make excuses for the problems of the black community in America. Clearly the issues are complex and controversial, and there are many factors at work. But when you start spouting off about the supposed genetic inferiority of a certain "race", you are just a racist punk white supremacist.
And apparently an anti-semite too now. How lovely. How is this guy not banned yet?
WOW!!!!! You are a bona fide White-hating bigot!!!
Ask yourself why Asians and Jews have moved to White nations, and never vice-versa.
You can talk about Asian IQ, but you have nothing but anti-white racism to back that up, considering that Japan, China and Korea have not produced societies that rival that of the Western World. Asians move en masse to where WHITES ARE, and never vice-versa, and there is never ANY PROOF whatsoever that Whites want to move to non-white nations. EVER. Whites have a centuries long history of avoiding Jews. So, if Whites are "inferior" in your warped anti-White racist brain, then the anti-proof exists that people (asian, jews, you name it) want to be around White nations.
Wow, I must have touched a raw nerve there! Well dude, I've got news for you. Your white brain can't beat the IQs of the Asians and the Jews. You just can't. Your favorite book "The Bell Curve" says so. The Bell Curve says Asians and Jews have average IQs that are 10 points higher than the average IQ of a white person. If we were to rank these groups in the totem pole of intelligence, Asians and Jews would share the top spot. You my white friend will occupy the mid to bottom spots.
In fact, if we were to abolish affirmative action policies in universities and just let the IQ chips fall where they may, our universities will be flooded with Asians and Jews. Asians are 5% of the US population, and Jews much less than that. But our universities today are packed with Asians and Jews. That's with affirmative action policies in place which actually discriminate against these two groups in favor of mediocre whites. Abolish these policies, and you'll see where the real brain power comes from.
As far as the migration patterns of whites...whites did move to non-white nations. America, Africa, Asia, Australia all were occupied by non-white peoples until the European whites decided they wanted to steal these lands from their original inhabitants. Lest you forget, the original inhabitants of America have Asian roots.
Jews meanwhile moved to White nations because the whites (ie Romans) attacked their country and caused them to go into diaspora. The Jews found themselves in Europe where they created businesses and prospered. They prospered so much that your ideological mentor - Adolf Hitler - out of jealousy found it necessary to throw them into gas chambers. The high IQ that the Jews exhibited was too much for Hitler to swallow. It was an insult to white pride, you know.
The societies of Japan, China, and Korea are much older and more developed than your romanticized version of the Western world. They produced civilizations that were more advanced than Europe was at the same period of history. The Chinese and Arabs invented mathematics at a time when European whites were still mired in ignorance and superstition. The biggest achievement of European civilization which, in my view, is the scientific method would not have been possible without the contributions of the Chinese, Indians, Arabs, and Africans. Again, who invented math? Writing? The alphabet? Agriculture? Gunpowder? It wasn't white people, dude. Sorry to burst your white supremacist bubble.
Loser: Who are the only people who ever set foot on the moon?
White Europeans.
You can type all you want, White-hating bigot, but the fact remains that the Western ideal is what is what all flies are attracted to.
You are obviously not-White, and you hate Whites.
Why do you live here? It's so funny to see your "all social construct" lies fall so fast!!! Bwaaahahahaha!!!! You knew it all along, you liar.
I am perplexed however, why, given the high IQ of the NE Asians, that China has taken so long to awaken. Japan obviously is advanced. The only advanced cultures that are not White are the Japanese, and (only lately) the Chinese.
Israel might be an interesting example if they weren't dependent on White Gentiles for subsidies, US tax transfers, etc., and their overall survival. They "out of jealousy" today continue to commit human rights abuses against innocent Pals, based on race.
according to Lynn israel doesn't rank where anti-White bigots like you want:
what is important is that people read, learn and make up their own mind -- and that they DO NOT LISTEN TO ANTI-WHITE RACISTS.
Last edited by GMarshfield; 09-02-2008 at 11:15 PM..
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