CN Railroad's possible rerouting around the city (Chicago, Berwyn: sales, neighborhoods)

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by nanannie

You 'cant wait to see it'. You must 'hold back vomit'. I wonder why such a young man could be so pzzed so often. Do you hate your life or something? Can there not be opposition from people whos lives are greatly affected without such vile scorn coming from someone who seems to have a bug up the behind about an entire HUGE community. The 'uppity' are not the majority.

The Barrington folks on television complaining about this (especially the mayor) sound like spoiled brats who are used to getting their way in life, and can't fathom that they are actually part of a larger metropolitan area. Barrington does not exist in a vacuum apart from the rest of Chicago, no matter what the residents there want to think. The attitudes of these people are appallingly selfish. They are making up arguments to suit their NIMBY agenda because they don't have any real arguments other than the minor congestion and noise issues this increased rail traffic will periodically cause. I actually saw some residents making the ridiculously alarmist claim that this will "kill Barrington". Give me a break!

[cubssoxfan]

Hey Lookout,
Did you read the details regarding the number of trains and the length of the trains?
Have you personally been to Barrington? They will have exisitng Metra & freight traffic on one line and dramatically increased freight traffic on a second line. So yes, it will be a traffic nightmare. This issue effects many people in all directions of Barrington who pass through going to and from homes well outside of Barrington. This will effect rte 14, a major regional highway. This will effect rte 59 a major regional highway. This will effect Lake Cook Rd. a regional thoroughfare. It will be expensive to build the needed bypasses and over/under-passes. The state has no $ and the railroad says, I will be generous and provide a small pittance towards the cost. So it would be a decade or more before the HUGE traffic bottleneckS would be alleviated. It would take at least 3 years to build traffic infrastructure if they started NOW. And this is assuming environmental and property aquisition is already done. This effects people in Fox Lake, Algonquin,Crystal Lake and many communities outside Barrington. Nearby communities will have to build larger highways to accomodate the traffic detouring around the 3 bottlenecks in Barrington. Ask people in Lake Zurich how they will feel about increased traffic on rte 12 and rte 22 as people find a way to get to Fox River Grove and towns northwest without having to take rte 14.
So a compromise needs to be reached. More money to immediately fund infrastructure improvements to avoid the current bottlenecks from becoming HUGE. And/or run trains non-rush hour, non overnight hours & limit size of trains. And/or get funding in place for original plan to move freight more effectively through Chicago. And/Or find a way for train freight to bypass Chicago on routes that are dramatically less populated. There is a HUGE cost to individuals and the regional economy for people to sit in traffic.
SO NO, THIS IS NOT ONLY ABOUT NIMBY'S!!!

[via chicago]

Originally Posted by cubssoxfan

Hey Lookout,
Did you read the details regarding the number of trains and the length of the trains?

The length of the trains are the same that ever single other community deals with. Nothing is changing in that regard.

There is a HUGE cost to individuals and the regional economy for people to sit in traffic.

You think a 2 minute wait for a train is bad? Take each one of those containers from every train and put them on a semi truck instead. Now tell me how your drive time commute looks.

SO NO, THIS IS NOT ONLY ABOUT NIMBY'S!!!

Yes, it is. Its about people living in collar counties who want all the benefits of being near a major global economic center, without shouldering any of the burdens.

Guess what, I live in Berwyn on the BNSF line. We have no underpasses. Theres a hospital on Oak Park ave (less than a block south of the tracks). Harlem Ave is a major thoroughfare as well. The nearest underpasses are at Austin Blvd or 1st Ave, each of which are at least a 10 minute drive to get to. We have hundreds of commuter trains and dozens of freights a day. Somehow we've managed to deal with this for decades.

If you don't want these problems, the solution is simple: move to rural Montana. You wont have to worry about dozens of trains a day. You also wont have the convenience, employment opportunities, and economic power that comes with living in a major metropolitan region. But the way I see it is these communities ARE a part of the metro region, and yea it sucks but sometimes you have to take one for the team. Otherwise, feel free to give up your Walmart, Best Buy, strip malls, and everything else that you moved out to the exburbs for. But you cant have your cake and eat it to.

[mendelman]

Regardless of the localized opposition, the Feds are very likely to approve this sale. This will relieve the congestion for a major proportion of North America's rail freight traffic. The benefits to the national economy are an order of magnitude greater than the negative impacts on a handful of localities.

The discussion is mute. The sale will happen, and the local communities impacted should be lobbying hard to get as many mitigation improvements out of CN as possible.

[cdc3217]

Originally Posted by cubssoxfan

Maybe they can put train restrictions in, with real enforcement capabilities, similar to the flight restrictions at busy airports. Example, no trains in the middle of the night, no more than 12 trains a day, trains must be an hour apart. A true compromise.

Not to be cynical, but the RR would not live up to the compromise. Once the complaints begin about rush hour blockages - they'll say, well then we'll run more trains overnight. They'll violate restrictions due to growing business needs and accept the local consequences (fines, etc.) as a cost of doing business.

It definitely suck for the locals, but all the arguments about "taking one for the team" are pretty true. You live near a big city - you get big city traffic.

[cubssoxfan]

The length of the trains are the same that ever single other community deals with. Nothing is changing in that regard.

Umm, NO! A metra train is shorter. The current trains on the diputed line are short regional trains.

You think a 2 minute wait for a train is bad? Take each one of those containers from every train and put them on a semi truck instead. Now tell me how your drive time commute looks.

Really? Only 2 minutes. If it was ONLY 2 minutes there would be less opposition. Now how about waiting for 2 trains back to back seperated by less than a block.That's what will happen on rte 59.

Guess what, I live in Berwyn on the BNSF line.

The train traffic in Berwyn has ALWAYS, historically been heavy. Not so on the disputed line. For decades it has been a small regional line with little traffic. Also, the bypasses around are WAY more than 10 minutes.
AGAIN, have you been to the area in question and driven in the area during rush hour. It is WAY MORE than just the local population being effected. Please get your map out and look at the communities along rtes 59, 14 and Lake Cook Rd. Come out here and experience the regional traffic flow before you become an "expert" on this.
NOW, let me throw out something we could possibly agree on. If traffic is already so choked on rte 59, why haven't they already built a bypass around downtown? Perhaps because of nearsighted planning that involves "I don't want to spoil the rural charm of MY town-while everyone else in the region is inconvenienced by this attitude?" If they had pushed for building the proper road infrastructure to handle the traffic in and through town, they wouldn't be facing as much traffic congestion.
But again, I sympathize with the locals on this one. It would be like the state, suddenly & without warning, deciding that they want to turn Harlem Av into an expressway. How can you research that before buying? If this rail line had a history of heavy traffic and then 5 years ago had a big decline in traffic and was now facing a new increase, I would be on your side of the argument. But this line has, for at least the last 20-30 years, been a relatively quiet line with few trains of short length.

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by cubssoxfan

.Really? Only 2 minutes. If it was ONLY 2 minutes there would be less opposition. Now how about waiting for 2 trains back to back seperated by less than a block.That's what will happen on rte 59.

Let's do a math problem... A two-mile train (the worst-case scenario) will take exactly four minutes to pass through an intersection if it's going 30 mph. Typical freight trains go 50 mph through suburban areas and 20 mph in urban areas, so I'm being conservative here. It could be closer to two minutes in places like Barrington.

As far as your two trains separated by a block argument, that will not happen. They're talking about 15 additional trains per day on that track--which isn't exactly a steady stream all day long. People are overreacting.

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by cubssoxfan

It would be like the state, suddenly & without warning, deciding that they want to turn Harlem Av into an expressway. How can you research that before buying?

Um, you do know that this was actually proposed, right? Welll, it was Cicero instead of Harlem, but close enough. Does the "Cross-Town Expressway" ring a bell?

The complete destruction of entire neighborhoods to create the urban expressway system we have today (or in the future) is not a good comparison to a few more long trains on an existing right-of-way. Not even close. It's like comparing a gunshot to an atom bomb. Yet the government was completely within its rights to demolish a path through several communities for the (suposed) benefit of the region, and the few extra trains on the EJ&E are a drop in the bucket by comparison.

Be thankful you aren't in the Little Italy of 1955 or the Bensenville of today.

[JerichoHW]

Originally Posted by nanannie

So if people object or voice an opposing opinion they are 'babies'. Strange, thought this was what Americans do and have always done.

Yes that is what people do, but at the same time people have to deal with it. I feel bad for some people, however at the same time they don't have to cry about it. I live 4 blocks from one CN's main train yards and deal with the trains for hours at a time (due to the fact they are slowing down and moving into the train hub), while people elsewhere are complaining that a train is going through there town at a quick rate of no more than 10 minutes. Here is a view of my train situation, now compare it to yours.

17641 Ashland Ave, Homewood, IL - Google Maps

[cubssoxfan]

JerichoHW-Were you aware of the train traffice b4 you moved in?
Lookout Kid-Crosstown was canceled because of neighborhood backlash and objections. Even Da Mayor with the power of "Da Clout" could not overcome the citizen's objections. Again, Lookout, have you traveled the area in question during rush hour, frequently? 4 minutes is ideal, but if the timing is off you will have a CNN or Metra train waiting for the other to clear a grade crossing between the 2 railroads. AND, my question still stands, what is the history of traffic on this route?